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Male view on modern feminism

135 replies

aronroche · 12/06/2019 02:08

I was having a discussion with a friend on what i see as the biggest issues with feminism and i would like a general idea on where women stood in relation to my views.

Firstly I have an issue with the term "rape culture" as I do not believe one exists in modern westernised countries. I understand this term to mean that there is somewhat of an acceptance of rape. I believe that 99 percent of males see rape the same way as women do. An absolute disgusting crime. While it is obviously different in other countries across the world, men in westernized countries do care about the welfare of women and would see a rapist as the lowest of the low.

The second issue I have with feminism is the term white male privalage. I understand women go through hardships I will never understand as a man but that does not mean that males do not have issues that women do not understand. I do not feel I have any advantage in society as a whole simply because im male.

Thirdly I disagree with the idea that a man is completely at fault if he has sex with a girl who is very drunk. Of course if a women is in such a drunken state that she is not conscious or lucid that is rape however if she is willing and knows exactly what she is doing that is on her regardless of how drunk she is. I would like to clarify that when I say this i mean completely willing in that she is not pressured and if she changes her mind the man has to accept her decision.

To finish id like to make clear that I do respect women and support women and the feminist movement as a whole. Im asking these questions not because I see womens issues as bullshit but because id better like to understand other views to my own

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 12/06/2019 08:04

I understand that i do have advantages being a white male but i do not like the term white male privilage because it implies Im a part of a sexist system merely because im white man.

This is the only slightly interesting thing you have said. Everything else is standard sexism and ignorance about sexual politics.

You are right, the term "white male privilege" does imply that you are part of a sexist system because you are a white man.

Just as "white privilege" implies that I am part of a racist system because I'm white.

I benefit all the time from being born white. I benefit in ways I'm not aware of and that I don't think about. Most of the time my white privilege is invisible to me because it is my normal and the normal of those like me. And that's how systematic discrimination / oppression works - it creates a hierarchy of haves and have nots. A hierarchy of normal and other, of dominant and suppressed, of superior and inferior. Because I was born white, this system advantages me and benefits me and it does so at cost to others. If I accept these benefits and advantages and I do not fight for the ending of them, I am part of the problem.

You don't get to have all the benefits of a social order weighted in your favor with having one teeny tiny disadvantage. That disadvantage is people telling you that you benefit from said social order. Cry me a fucking river Hmm

MIdgebabe · 12/06/2019 08:08

INstead of (appearing) rather aggressive / negative about how feminism is wrong, why not focus your energy on something more positive. As you say there are Male problems too. Macho culture, mental health issues, why not positively support groups looking at those issues ? Why not post about charities you support or work you have done to raise awareness of those Male problems with women? Are there particular behaviours that women As a group exhibit towards men that they do not exhibit towards women that you feel make those problems worse?

Maitairiki · 12/06/2019 08:11

I assume you have a fulfilling career that you have been able to keep working at while your children were young? Most women who become parents don’t have that choice - their careers are derailed or they have to go into work that fits around school hours. Sick child? Dad isn’t the first point of call is he. Career advancement- an unreliable woman who does all the sick days school pickups etc or our trusty male worker who stays late... have a think about that!

aronroche · 12/06/2019 08:14

Right id like to make a point on the general response ive gotten on my original post.

Firstly it wasnt meant to offend people or tell any women that they are wrong that they are wrong. Im only giving my views as I see it. I can accept that men get off on rape charges far more than I thought and ill look into statistics to back it up.

Secondly i understand that im far better off being a white man than a woman in saudi arabia for example and that I do have advantages in being male however women have advantages aswell.

Thirdly i do think the term manslpaining is ridiculous as it dosnt help give any insight but instead is a bit of a fuck you.

In my office I do not see women being harassed so again I only have a point of view from my expierences

OP posts:
Biancadelrioisback · 12/06/2019 08:14

All of my colleagues (bar 1) are parents of young children (aged between 1-5 with mine being smack in the middle). We all have pictures of our families on our desks.
Nearly every single contractor or client who sees the pics on my desk adopt this fake sympathy expression and a head tilt and asked me if I miss my son when im at work. No one has ever asked my colleagues the same question. Someone once asked me if my DH had died so they could understand why I was at work and not at home with my son.

Tell me again that every day sexism isn't a thing?

Biancadelrioisback · 12/06/2019 08:15

What advantages do women have?

LiveFatsDieYoGnu · 12/06/2019 08:16

Why should we give a fuck what you think? Crawl back into your swamp, there’s a dear.

Biancadelrioisback · 12/06/2019 08:20

Unless I've missed it, you've stated that:

  1. men can't be emotional and have to be mentally strong
  2. if men want to be SAHDs they are looked down on
  3. they are expected to be the breadwinner

Who do you think put these 'rules' in place? I can say with a fair amount of certainty that lots of women don't care about these, and I'm fairly certain children don't... So just other men? Are you beginning to see a pattern here?

TooTrueToBeGood · 12/06/2019 08:21

I was having a discussion with a friend on what i see as the biggest issues with feminism and i would like a general idea on where women stood in relation to my views.

Why are you only interested in the opinions of women? If you were genuinely interested in educating yourself and sanity checking your beliefs you would welcome as wide an audience as possible. By targetting women for debate you are either hoping to demonstrate how woke you are or you are being incredibly condescending. If the former, you've shot yourself in the foot as the only way you might be considered woke would be if you timeshifted back to the 1950s.

Firstly I have an issue with the term "rape culture" as I do not believe one exists in modern westernised countries.

Then you need to educate yourself. The facts and figures are easy to google and they are shocking. Look up the percentage of women that have been raped or sexually assaulted. Look up the percentage of victims that report their attackers and the reasons so few do. Look up the percentage of reported assaults that make it to court. Look up the percentage of successful prosecutions.

I understand this term to mean that there is somewhat of an acceptance of rape. I believe that 99 percent of males see rape the same way as women do. An absolute disgusting crime. While it is obviously different in other countries across the world, men in westernized countries do care about the welfare of women and would see a rapist as the lowest of the low.

One of the biggest problems we have is what many people, and not just men sadly, consider to be rape or sexual assault. We pretty much all agree that a man sexually attacking a women with force and violence, where the woman is screaming no and resisting with all her might, is rape. However, remove the violence, lower or remove the overt resistance, perhaps introduce an existing relationship, and too many people start to get confused. The fact is, rape is intercourse without consent. Sexual assault is any other sexual act without consent. There are many ways consent can be absent without going to the extremes of beating the victim semi-conscious. Then there is the notion of enthusiastic consent, one which you would fully subscribe to if you were remotely woke. For example, your girlfriend finally agreeing to have sex, when previously uninterested, because you huff or nag the shit out her, or because she's afraid you might lose your temper, may satisfy the basic legal definition of consent but it would not meet a reasonable person's definition of enthusiastic consent.

The second issue I have with feminism is the term white male privalage. I understand women go through hardships I will never understand as a man but that does not mean that males do not have issues that women do not understand. I do not feel I have any advantage in society as a whole simply because im male.

Bizarre logic. Why does men having some of their own issues to deal with nullify the whole concept of male privilege? That makes no sense. We live in a long-established patriarchal society. It's programmed into us, almost down to our dna, that we are superior to women. We may accept rare exceptions to the rule but generally we naturally presume a position of power in every area of our lives.

Thirdly I disagree with the idea that a man is completely at fault if he has sex with a girl who is very drunk. Of course if a women is in such a drunken state that she is not conscious or lucid that is rape however if she is willing and knows exactly what she is doing that is on her regardless of how drunk she is. I would like to clarify that when I say this i mean completely willing in that she is not pressured and if she changes her mind the man has to accept her decision.

Your bar is so low you'll need to dig it out with a fucking shovel. You're saying that unless a woman is so drunk she's pretty much unconscious then she's fair game. I wonder if your bar would be so low if the woman in question was your own daughter?

To finish id like to make clear that I do respect women and support women and the feminist movement as a whole.

That's not really for you to judge, is it? The very fact that you would make such a claim, sadly, suggests you are probably closed minded and will meet counter-positions with denial and resistance rather than giving them any real considerstion.

Doyoumind · 12/06/2019 08:22

Ok. In your office you don't see harassment. Well, it's not always about overt harassment. Try looking for examples of everyday sexism. Do that today. Are men and women spoken to and treated in exactly the same way?

What's the ratio of men to women at your level? What about when you look at the senior management?

Who earns more - your mum or dad?

CostanzaG · 12/06/2019 08:23

Male privilege exists in this country too.

Bluestitch · 12/06/2019 08:23

Im unaware of conviction statistics for rape

This is male privilege in itself tbh. The large number of women who have been sexually assaulted or raped are all too aware of the stats. We have to weigh up whether or not to report a violent crime to the police. Is it worth the invasion, the victim blaming, the unlikelihood of a conviction. A young woman recently had her choice of underwear dissected in court. The fact that she was injured, hysterical and bleeding wasn't enough to get a conviction. The CPS recently didn't pursue a case where the perpetrator confessed to the rape via messages. A man was found not guilty as a pp said because he claimed he tripped and fell on the victim.

The fact that you are walking around oblivious to all this stuff is your male privilege.

Beachcomber · 12/06/2019 08:23

Oh and by the way OP you have exhibited your socialization with regards to rape culture and absorption of its values numerous times on this thread. The below quote being the least subtle example :

Im not saying rape and sexual miscondudt dosnt happen. Of course it does.

You don't understand what rape culture means. It is a sophisticated and complex concept.

Part of the concept is the idea that society and members of that society assume and accept sexual violence to be inevitable.

Which is what you just did above. Your comments about pornography also show that you have absorbed rape culture attitudes as your own. This thread is rape culture in action. You are perpetuating rape culture on this very thread whilst you simultaneously deny that rape culture is a thing. And you are doing that because your male privilege (something else you don't accept is a thing) renders rape culture unimportant to you.

That's how it works. And you have demonstrated it on your own thread which is ironic but tediously common.

DeptfordDervish · 12/06/2019 08:24

If Toy Story 4 had a Mansplaining White Privilege Ken doll, when you pulled its string it would sound exactly like this underthinking drivel.

Milkybars · 12/06/2019 08:25

Nobody cares what you think. Boring. Go and swing your penis elsewhere

JohnMcCainsDeathStare · 12/06/2019 08:29

You know that white male privilege exists when some of your white male friends are creeped out by it. Take a STEM interview with a diverse set of candidates one of my friends went to. Guess who went through to the next round - the only 2 white male candidates...

Not to mention the shitshows I went through jobseeking in STEM and some of my former colleagues did to on this matter.

Bluestitch · 12/06/2019 08:30

Also the fact that you have come onto a female dominated forum to explain women's own life experiences to them and argue where they are wrong- and then you deny mansplaining is a thing? It's quite common for men to come onto this forum and tell women where they are going wrong. I doubt it happens much in reverse, on male dominated forums. It's having the confidence of a mediocre white male I guess.

aronroche · 12/06/2019 08:33

It is a womans choice to have a child. If a woman is more career orientated she can focus on that rather than raise a family, Men cnnot have children so this affects us less. Women usually are the parent who stays at home because the maternal bond with a child is far more important than that of a father. This is the case in basically every species on earth. Men are supposed to go out and provide. If a man didnt do his part to look after his child financially he would be thought less off, If i ever have a child and my partner wanted to work id fully supprt that and wed find an option where the chidren could be looked after @Maitairiki

OP posts:
curiositycreature · 12/06/2019 08:35

It is a womans choice to have a child. If a woman is more career orientated she can focus on that rather than raise a family, Men cnnot have children so this affects us less. Women usually are the parent who stays at home because the maternal bond with a child is far more important than that of a father. This is the case in basically every species on earth. Men are supposed to go out and provide. If a man didnt do his part to look after his child financially he would be thought less off, If i ever have a child and my partner wanted to work id fully supprt that and wed find an option where the chidren could be looked after @Maitairiki**

Angry are you for real?!!! You’re a troll right? Do you want to listen to a woman break this down for you or are you going to continue to be defensive and not listen to anything???

Doyoumind · 12/06/2019 08:39

🙄 you have now proved you are a GF or are a complete dick OP. You don't know the first thing about sexism or feminism.

mononokeswolf · 12/06/2019 08:39

.

Shoxfordian · 12/06/2019 08:40

Ooh a man's opinion. We don't have enough of those!
Bore off op

one1stepatatime · 12/06/2019 08:51

"men cannot have children"? that's news to me OP.

Anyway, you're not a feminist. @BertrandRussell's list is a perfect example of how men can support feminism and the fact that you don't agree with her should be a sign to you that you're not the feminist you thought you were. You come across as rather sexist.

HakunaRattatas · 12/06/2019 08:53

@aronroche Please stop. I'm a man and you are embarrassing me never mind yourself. You need to do some reading, keep your eyes open and maybe talk to some real life women about their experiences (nb when I say talk to, I mean ask questions and listen to the responses not talk at then)

Rashatash · 12/06/2019 08:54

I wonder if the op is gcse student,? as I believe this is one of the select questions for current gcse English students to write a speech part of their exam work?
Something about ‘perceptions of modern feminism’

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