Please read me if you feel that committing suicide is 'selfish'

[wheresmymojo]

This is slightly a TAAT but I feel it's such an important topic I wanted to start a new thread about it rather than derailing one this has come up on.

A lot of people feel that suicide is 'selfish'. Selfish because of the impact on family left behind, anyone who sees the suicide (if it's in a more public setting) or has to deal with the aftermath and anyone who might be directly involved through no choice of their own (e.g. train drivers).

I completely understand why it seems selfish.

As someone who has been suicidal many times (albeit only one unsuccessful attempt) I just wanted to explain why the person isn't selfish.

Once you get to the state of depression where you are suicidal you are really no longer yourself. You look like you, you talk like you, but you are not you. Your brain has been overcome with chemicals that mean your actions are no longer 'your actions' any more. Your thoughts are no longer 'your thoughts'. Major depression is like an alien has taken over your brain.

It's a long slide (usually) - you become less 'you' and more the 'alien' every day. By the time you're suicidal 'you' have pretty much vacated the building.

You can't see suicide as something negative for your family and friends or the pain that it will cause because all you can see is how much better off they will be without you. In a twisted way you are doing it partly for them, because you feel you're just dragging them down. You're making their life difficult and they'll be so much better off without you.

As for others who may find your body/train drivers/etc....when you are that suicidal you don't really think about them. Not because you're selfish but because the illness makes you have complete tunnel vision. All you can see is your pain and how much you want to die. You are not capable of thinking about the impact on people who might see/deal with the aftermath.

I guess that's the bit I want to make clear....you aren't making a selfish decision not to think about them, you aren't capable of thinking about them.

You're not in charge of your thoughts any more, the illness is and it just wants you to die and it blocks out anything that might make you think twice.

Sorry - this is an essay but I feel it's important to try and get across what it's like. I genuinely feel that by the time I feel suicidal I'm no more 'myself' than someone who has dementia might be 'themselves' just in a different way.

even on my lowest days i couldn't contemplate punishing everyone i love for my own problems.

You understand that depression isn’t the same for everyone?

For many people, the worst thing you can say is “think of your children”. They think they’re doing them a favour by getting out of their lives. That’s the ILLNESS.

Some suicidal people are doing all they can not to die too-why do you think people overdose and then call an ambulance?

I am a failed suicide. I have never sought help having taken actions to end my life, but I have been monstrously lucky/unlucky in that the methods I used (each different) happened not to work. I now understand the appeal of other methods tbh

That said, I don't think it's selfish exactly - we don't describe babies as "selfish", for example, or other individuals whose situation or condition or both prevents them from having the ability to consider others. Someone with very severe depression is similarly unable to fully consider the impact of their actions, and so I don't think that "selfish" is quite the right word.

My younger sister made the decision to end her life on Thursday. As her family, we are obviously devastated but I do respect her choice. She had made numerous attempts over the years but the way she did it meant it was clear that she intended to die.
She was in so much pain, mentally and physically that she just couldn't go on.

I think it is selfish because in most cases there will be people left behind and devastated by your choice. But if a person is in so much pain that they think dying is the only solution then it's also selfish to believe that that person should stay alive just to save you from the pain you'll feel when they're gone.

They think they’re doing them a favour by getting out of their lives.

Yeah I understand that. The most important person in a kid's life though is their mum (and dad).

Suicidal depression is no more of a decision than cancer.

In the words of David Foster Wallace:

"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."

why do you think people overdose and then call an ambulance? i have never personally experienced anyone doing this so i hadnt considered it. The thing is they could have accessed other help well before they actually overdosed. If youre dying of terminal cancer there is no help left. Theyre not comparable. No ambulance can save you at the last minute.

The thing is they could have accessed other help well before they actually overdosed.

Yes, but their depression stops them accessing that help.

It doesnt stop them. Many depressed people access help.

I tried to commit suicide a few years ago. I plotted it meticulously because I really wanted to die. It didn't work because my husband, who was on a work course and was meant to be away over night, sensed somehow that there was something amiss and when he could not get hold of me on the phone he came home early and found me.

I took an overdose. I never ever considered ways like jumping off a building, bridge etc or under a train, tube or anything other vehicle. I personally think jumping under a train etc is selfish because of the effect it can have on the driver. I do think though that some people are no longer capable of rational thinking when they decide to kill themselves.

I definitely wanted to die, it was not a cry for help but I got no help or advice from the hospital that I was in for almost a week or my GP. In fact my GP told me that if I had been serious I would have jumped off a building not taking an overdose! He also said I didn't mean because I knew my DH would come home and find me despite me telling him countless times that my DH was meant to be away overnight and that is why I chose that day and took the pills very early in the morning so they would work.

Not selfish- but that doesn't mean that it doesn't absolutely wreck the lives of those left behind and it's perfectly acceptable for them to feel anger and resentment- amongst all the other feelings they may have.

I work in mental health:
Some people who kill them selves are selfish.

Not everyone who kills themselves are depressed.

People do suicide for different reasons, some for anger or revenge, drugs or alcohol.

Many severely depressed people do not ever attempt suicide.

People do suicide for different reasons, some for anger or revenge, drugs or alcohol.

Yes true.

Might get a bad reaction for saying this but as someone who has been there MANY times, I think I can say it.

I feel in many situations it's the family and friends who are the selfish ones. Asking someone to prolong their suffering? Really? If someone is in such crippling pain (I'm talking severe chronic depression) then what gives them the right to say "please just tolerate this emotional torture for a bit longer because it's a little inconvenient for me if you die"? My parents have both stepped in when I've been suicidal but then walked away instantly, no support whatsoever. They just don't want to deal with the aftermath, it's not because they care. If someone can't cope and has tried everything possible and genuinely doesn't want to live anymore, it's entirely their decision and theirs alone. Anyone who thinks the pain of grieving is worse than the pain of depression is pretty damn selfish.

I definitely wanted to die

mydogisthebest - what do you think now looking back? Your DH was very in tune with you thank goodness.

It may very well be that the depression leads the person to be incapable of reasonable thought, but that doesn't mean that the act is not selfish.

My mum hung herself when I was 21 leaving me and my 3 brothers ranging from 5-18 with a terminally ill father who died 7 years later.

No note, no previous diagnosis or signs, nothing.

Our lives were changed forever, I went from a uni student to a career and substitute mum overnight. My brothers were emotionally broken.

It was devastating and has had a permanent impact on all of our lives. It was selfish.

That doesn't mean I don't love and miss her, but the act and the impact was selfish.

This is exactly how I feel. I totally want it all to be over. But am just about aware of the impact on my children suicide have. I can’t thijk of a way to do it definitely successfully

Thethingswedoforlove - your name says it all It's not an option if you have kids. They need you alive and you love em.

@weebarra - I'm so sorry to see your post. How terribly sad .

Yes I know Ikanta

Inkanta, I still have depression and I still, often, think about dying but I am pretty certain I will never try again.

I saw the upset it caused my DH and the couple of members of my close family that know about it.

I do have quite a lot of happy times and am lucky to have a loving DH and family but I can't say I am happy that I am still alive

bibbitybobbityyhat
Its offensive because its disrespectful of the person who has died because of an illness they couldn't control. My dad was sick, he had been most of his life. He got to the age of almost 60, had been suffering with mental illness since he was a teenager. That is a LONG time to be in pain.

It's also offensive because you are undermining the effect that mental illness can have on a person. You have no idea what goes on in anyone elses head.

ifonlyoureyeshadsouls

Your post summed up my thoughts so well. I can absolutely see the point OP is making in relation to her experience. I know of 2 suicides; one caused by utter despair and dreadful fear of an outcome they had no control over, the other almost certainly a "fuck you" to a wife who was having an affair.

It is the ultimate tragedy. The repercussions are catastrophic. To the victim, the finder or the watcher, all the loved ones and friends. Also to the people who others think should have somehow saved the victim; the weight of guilt on those people is horrific.

The 'act' of suicide in itself is selfish, however the person themselves aren't selfish.

I'm always a bit dubious about suicide threads on such a public forum, but I do think OP is making a really valuable point that needs saying.

To me, back in the day, my primary motivation in trying to end my life was altruism. I felt like I wasn't worth enough to justify all the expense of the food I was eating, clothes I was bought etc and it was simply pure logic in my eyes that my family would much prefer that I wasn't there any more. It was for their benefit really, I thought they'd rather have a bit more cash in their pocket. I wasn't trying to end my pain or anything like that, just trying to be as little of an inconvenience & a waste as possible.

I may have been utterly mistaken but I still can't see it as selfish. I can only think that anyone who does just can't imagine having such a low sense of self-worth that you genuinely believe everyone else would be better off without you.