I actually do think anti vaxxers have a point to a certain extent

[HairHereThere]

Like with ANY medication/treatment there are risks
I feel the government are letting us down with such a one sided ‘vaccines are safe’ argument and how they never want to admit that vaccinations cause problems.
I think, I’m some cases they do. Not being able to claim under the vaccine damage scheme for under 2s gives the wrong message too it’s just too.......defensive ?

If they said actually there is a risk, it’s small but it’s there and we’re honest then had more of a balanced reasoning that yes there’s a risk but it’s a choice and presented it better that the scaremongering would die down

I’m theory I’m anti vax but I’ve vaccinated my children fully because I believe it’s a risk but a risk that is worth taking if that makes sense.
Some I spent to though are terrified and feel there’s such a brick wall up around balanced discussion and it makes things worse ?

My friend was anti-vax and her son is now sterile having got mumps as an adult

Are we supposed to give credence to "Prince Philip ordered Diana 's murder" or "there were no moon landings " or "the earth is flat" just because some people are foolish enough to believe stupid shit.

I am pro-vaccine and my children are fully vaccinated, but I insisted that my kids have each vaccine at separate appointments, rather than loading as many into one appointment as possible. The only reason for combined vaccinations is to increase convenience and thereby increase uptake.

I think the point you make is also relevant to the pill, the side effects of which are not fully discussed, because the benefits of unwanted pregnancy are deemed outlay the disadvantages.

should say: deemed to outweigh

Where are you living? The NHS (I assume this is what you mean when you say government?) openly states that there is a risk of adverse reaction and that some people cannot be vaccinated. Everyone who has every been to a vaccine appointment would have been warned of the risk of an adverse reaction and told to wait for ten to fifteen minutes before leaving in case.

a huge amount of people I’m interacting with currently are anti vax

You need a new set of less stupid friends.

No. Anti-vaxxers don't have a point any more than flat earthers have a point. They put their children at risk, and they put other people at risk every single day: it's infuriating and dangerous and deeply, deeply selfish.

I'd love to know whether the 'risk' you mention is as high as the 'risk' of catching something going to soft play or the supermarket.

It's the complete refusal to discuss anything other than the party line that instills fear in people I think.

Yes. I am vehemently pro vaccination. But the refusal to listen to people or explain anything beyond "Yes, your child must have it" is counter productive.

You only have to read the responses to the OP to see how there an instant knee jerk reaction to anyone even asking a question.

Both sides in the vaccination debate need to calm down a bit and communicate beyond insults.

@genievia but there is no reason not to woth the except of some live vaccines which will be given separately if there is a clinical benefit.

If you would trust medical science to treat an illness, why wouldn't you trust it to prevent one.

“There are risks.”

There are risks in - quite literally - every area of life. What we must do is learn to ascribe sensible probabilities to those risks in order to get on with our lives.

So - there is a risk that the piece of chocolate that I am about to eat has been contaminated in the factory and could cause severe food poisoning. There is a risk that I develop a severe allergy to it and go into anaphylactic shock from eating it. There is a risk that my husband is suddenly gripped by psychosis from seeing the piece of chocolate and leaps upon me to wrestle it from my hand, thereby knocking me over and causing me a fatal blow to the head.

Are there risks to eating the chocolate? Yes. Are they sizeable risks? No. Is it sensible to worry about them in that context? No. Am I going to eat the chocolate? Absolutely......

Every single medical thing has a risk. Everything.

Here are the risks of CALPOL

Possible side-effects CALPOL® Infant Suspension can have side-effects, like all medicines, although these don’t affect everyone and are usually mild.
Tell your doctor as soon as possible if you notice any of these:
■ allergic reactions including swelling of the face, tongue or throat, difficulty swallowing, unexplained wheezing, shortness of breath which may be accompanied by skin rash or hives.
■ becoming unusually tired, unexpected bruising or bleeding and getting more infections (such as colds) than usual. These are very rare effects in people taking paracetamol.
■ very rare cases of serious skin reactions have been reported. Symptoms may include: skin reddening, blisters, rash. If skin reactions occur or existing skin symptoms worsen, stop use and seek medical help right away.

I am almost completely deaf due to measles when I was a very small baby. My mum was pro vaccine but I contracted measles before my 1st vac. I was in hospital for 6 weeks in an oxygen tent (in the late 60s).

@hairherethere maybe they were just irritated by the suggestion. In some cases it would be actually a pretty stupid suggestion to make

I'm sorry you had a weird, proberly scary experience at a&e. I've always found medical professionals very open and honest about possible reactions and side effects. I felt they really took the time to explain things on both ends of the scale. I'm going back 18 years though when, people had only recently started to become wary of vaccinations.
Please tell your friends to research properly, don't believe everything to read on the internet. Some of anti vaxxers do raise some valid points, but most is either twisted or just simply lies. They're all very convincing, because they really believe in it.
I just thought, what would I prefer, a child with difficulties or a dead child. For me it's a no brainer.

There is a risk for anything you put in your body - 99.99% of people could be absolutely fine but there will always be the 0.01% that have some sort of adverse reaction for some reason. No one is ever going to say anything is 100% safe, that would be impossible. BUT and this is a big but, you always have to take the risk and balance it against the reward. In this case not contracting a perfectly preventable disease which can have its own potential risks (and that is before you consider the more altruistic herd immunity etc)

I agree with you OP. We cannot say it will never ever happen (look at thalidomide) just because the chances are so slight

The take up of vaccinations in the children of health care professionals and research chemists is higher than in the general population.

Have a guess why that is.

What do you think you are not being told?

The only reason for combined vaccinations is to increase convenience and thereby increase uptake.

See that right there is misleading BS. As 5-in-1 shots are as safe as giving individually - and they very much are - why on earth would the NHS not back that option? Surely it is kinder (fewer jabs for the little ones), simpler and over a large population more effective to combine vaccines, as doing so is every bit as safe.

I'm with you HairHereThere

Seems to me it's all about the gov saving money which is why they introduced the triple vaccine in the first place

Everything has a risk, including vaccines. But the risk is very very tiny in comparison to the risk of NOT vaccinating, for the vast majority of children.

^^Thalidomide was a drug which was prescribed to pregnant women without having been properly tested. Vaccines have been extensively tested and are known to be safe.

It's a position of lofty privilege to be able to sit and twiddle your thumbs about weather to 'risk it' or weather to trust that enough other parents will continue to do the sensible thing and keep enough of the population vaccinated.

The thing about the flat earthers ect is that their strange logic is entirely their own business. 'Anti vaxers' however, put the rest of us at risk.

I was vaccinated. I still contracted whooping cough as a child. I was quite poorly, I didn't die though, nor did I pass it to my siblings who both had underlying health conditions, whooping cough would have very likley killed them!

But the triple vaccine is safe!

I feel the same about Anti-seatbelters OP.

Seatbelts are not 100% effective. Do we really know that all those chemicals in them are safe?

If you promise not to let your kids wear seatbelts OP, I won't vaccinate my kids. What do you say?