Sisters children might be taken into care

[101Familyiseverything]

Not really sure what advice I'm after, If any at all. I just have no idea who to talk to without making my friends sick of my emotions (I'm already sick of my emotions).

My sister will be going to court to find out if her children will be taken into care. This is not really down to her bad choices more her learning ability and how her brain operates differently. It's easy to judge from the outside believe me I was one of them.
Anyway I'm not going to bore you with how she got to this situation, I am however going to bore you with the present situation. It's going to be vague.

After a long process to the final details being rushed by the social worker; my sister will be going to court to fight to keep her children. It's looking unlikely she will get to keep any of them. This is where it gets messy, she has quite a few children so therefore they will be separated. I already have children and can only really find room and the finance to support one child (without my own children having to give up their classes/clubs and being able to ensure the child we take on can be supported with the same treatment. To make them feel welcome into their new home and that the children don't end up resenting one another). My Husband and I had discussed this in great depth only for him to change his mind right at the last minute. There are no words for how I am feeling at the moment. I know we need to be together on this or not at all, but I just can't help but to feel betrayed, let down, and alone. I would without a doubt take in his niece or nephew if he asked me too. I know my way of thinking might be unreasonable but this is my family (my Husbands family by marriage) how can he turn his back on that. It's not ideal but it's happening.

The social worker is pestering me to take more than one child. This is breaking my heart. I feel like a complete monster for not being able to do so and now I might not be able to even take one. If anything happened to my Husband and I, I would want someone from the family to take them in. How on earth could I expect this if we are not prepared to do the same?
My sister is currently finding it difficult to keep the children within the family as it is, let alone adding this to it all.

Has anyone been in a similar situation, did it get resolved for the better?

Thanks for taking the time to read and sorry for the blabber.

It would fly in the face of a mountain of statistics but you never know.

Surely they stand a better chance in care alone than as one of 6 siblings + the Ops other children. At a minimum if she took them all as so many posters are suggesting each child would be 1 of at least 8 (the Op said she has children not just one child).

They would find it very difficult to achieve their potential as one of such a large crowd after having suffered the trauma of being separated from their mother and moving into a one parent home where their cousins had just lost their father as a perceived result of their arrival.

I think anyone who thinks this would be easy is thinking of their own nephews and nieces who are easy to get on with and don't need such a lot of care.

I think this is very very true.

OP, my DH would feel like you do in this situation. Perhaps rightly. I would be all for making it work, but I know it might break me and I would feel as if my own DC were being thrown under a bus.

Love is not everything, even if we wish it were.

The op said that two of the six children were being taken in by other family members.

I don't think the op is obliged to take all other four children but I would think differently of my DH if he reneged on taking in one.

But as a thought exercise. Being taken out of your family and placed with strangers in LA care sees a soaring rate of criminality, teen pregnancy, poor education, drug use, other risky behaviour, unemployment, mental illness along with a whole host of other negative outcomes that swamp the down sides that you listed.

Is your dsis a single mum or has she a partner? What about the Dad's side of the family?

Oh OP, what an awful situation. I don’t think some of the comments on here are very helpful- emotive and guilt tripping declarations of what they would do in your situation are not what you need to hear right now.

You do need to think of your own children and of your marriage before committing to anything. I can understand you feeling disappointed in your husband but don’t judge him too harshly, it maybe that he has perspective that you don’t as it isn’t his sister’s children. It’s also good that he’s being honest and not going along with something against his judgement.

There are some stark but informative posts on here about the reality of kinship care and I think you need to do your best to think practically as well as emotionally.

If you take one of your sister's children on, is any financial support available? I'm thinking that foster carers get support funds. Could you get some?

Name changed cos friend reads here sometimes.

I always thought I'd have no problem having a loved ones children live with me to avoid going into care.

Until I was actually in that position and it's all very well saying you'll get financial assistance and support from social services.

If the family concerned didn't have all the support they were getting cut over the last few years they'd all still be together now, cuts happened and friends professional health declined, her dds support groups were cut and as she also didn't attend any kind of full time education due to her own issues she also gradually declined. The husbands own children were sent to live with his ex as he had no support in caring for an adult and older child with some very complex mh issues, he ended up having a breakdown himself due to having to constantly make sure nobody killed themselves. I'm not saying that lightly, gran helped with the child but as she's elderly she developed her own physical health problems and there was a period where husband had left because his wife went to hit his child when she was having contact with her dad, and as much as he lives his wife and this is when social services became involved and attempted to put the initial support friend and dd had been having back in place.

Anyway her husband had left and her mum was in hospital, a serious incident happened and I was the only person the dd would stay with. I wasn't made aware of the incident that triggered he needing to come with me and was told I'm not to let the dd go home. It was meant to be one night only one night and was given an emergency number. One night turned to two, two night to three and it quickly became clear social services were trying to pressure me into taking over what gran had been doing and having the dd three quarters of the time.

Even though I thought I was really close to my best friend and her dd there were a lot of issues I was unaware of and massively unequipped to deal with. She needed watching 24/7, threatened violence towards my own dd for using her computer for homework, my dad is very understanding and kind and never once complained or showed any resentment and for the five days she was here dd pretty much went to her bedroom to avoid triggering friends dd with her presence.

Had to have my dog stay with family because she'd try nipping it when no one was looking, she'd be up in the middle of the night looking for pills or something to harm herself with and I also had my friend threaten to beat me up if I didn't let her in to see her dd. That emergency number social services left? No answer ever.

This child and her mum need the professional help they were getting before but because they've been let down time and time again both won't engage and treat means things get worse and worse.

Social services tried to get me involved in meetings so I knew how to support her dd "next time" And they were pushy about me making this a regular permanent thing. I've watched that family fight for the minimal support for years and years, and given social services threw me in the deep end and then fucked off I don't doubt that I'd have to fight too and it must be so exhausting and stressful for families doing this full time like friends husband was, I can't provide the type of care this child needs without my own child being confined to a bedroom, without having any time with me at all, and I'd not be able to work. She also doesn't like men and for the few days she was here husband also stayed in the bedroom when home, this isn't practical long term and social services where useless in offering alternatives other that "it's only one more night"

I'm happy to provide a safe place in a crisis for a few days but I can't give up work and expect my dd and dh to stay confined to a bedroom and have family look after my dog three quarters of the time to avoid physical violence.

Ah OP I'm so sorry you're in this situation

I don't blame your DH though. I couldn't do it. You're a better person than I am.

It all sounds very distressing OP. I'm a foster carer so I understand the impact taking in other people's children can have on your own family. My DD really struggled for quite a while - the difference is I get full training and support, 24-hour access to emergency help, support network for my own DD etc etc.

Where are the children now, have I missed that? Have they already been removed?

I know you're being vague but I'd be interested to know a bit more about why the children have been removed. It's likely they have a range of issues if they've received poor parenting over a number of years - attachment disorder being the big one.

Not easy to just say "yeah I'll have all six." Real life isn't like Ann of Green Gables or Goodnight Mr Tom.

If your sisters brain operates differently and she has issues learning what support has she received so far? Why wasn’t there support in place when she had her first child?

Also what would happen if she was to have another child or children? Where is the father in all of this? And his family?

There are cases where people cry out for help but social services ignore their pleas until such a time that something drastic Happens and they are then taken into care.

Circumstances do change.

I also think OP you have to consider that If social services failed your sister in assisting her to provide adequate care to her children, they are also likely to fail you too.

@contraryann when a teen can't cope with a new baby sometimes they are placed in a mother and baby unit or in teen and baby foster care. Often the carer ends up parenting the baby while the mother disengages. I'm not sure that's any better than a child in long term foster care having an occasional visit from mum.

This is a very very difficult situation and can’t be looked at through rose coloured specs, with images of the Walton’s.

If these kids are at the point of being removed from their mother then they must be experiencing severe neglect or abuse. They will need a lot of time, care, attention, prob loads of appointments with school/health care etc etc.

It’s not as simple as saying they are family, we’ll take them in.

drspouse Not knowing the mother's capabilities, maybe it would be a good thing if she disengages a bit. Also, having no idea of the cost of foster care, I'm wondering if it might be more cost effective to have someone supervise the mum and six children in their home. Maybe it wouldn't have to be 24/7. She's been allowed to do it for 9 years so she's not an axe murderer or something really bad.

I think it's barbaric and against all human/animal nature to take away children from their mother - even if she's subpar.

The fact that they take away children to prevent 'future emotional harm' in the UK makes me believe they are too quick on the switch there.

There's a good chance even if OP takes this 6 there might be another 6 of them in 10 years time. I suppose preventing her from having more is out of the question.

r imagine how those young children will feel if they are admitted into care and then adopted by a family who doesn't have to squash them into a bedroom with 3 others. A family who has the funds to allow them to go to clubs and have new experiences. A family who chose them and wanted them despite what they had been through.

That's the ideal, bit very unlikely situation. So much more likely they go into a foster home and if they are lucky get a good one where they stay and settle.

This isn't subpar and it isn't "potential harm". The children have already been harmed. Seriously harmed.

OP I feel for you and for your family. It is a shitty situation all around with no easy answers.

I can understand very much why you want to do what you can but I can equally see why your husband could have significant reservations. And far better those come to light now than you take in a child and he later says it is too much.

It’s easy for me to say I would take in my nieces and nephews because the largest number that I could end up with is 3 and some are old enough to be largely self-sufficient. It would be an adjustment, but we would all be ok. It would also be children who had lost parents, but up until that event had loving supportive homes. Six troubled children is very different.

I’ve often read that if you are taking in children while already having bio children, ideally the new kids should be younger. Would your husband be more amenable if the child you were taking into your home was one of the younger ones.

@ContraryAnn you clearly don't know how social care works. It's like Trump suggesting to French Fire Fighters how to deal with the Notre Dame fire.

Which is why we don't leave social care or fire fighting up to well-meaning but utterly clueless people.

This is a head and heart moment, I feel so very sorry for you and your sister. I hope the best decision is made for the children

This is such a difficult predicament from so many angles. As much as a knee jerk reaction would be to take all the children in and look after them, the reality 1-2 years down the line might be very different. How will the children adjust? How will your own children feel? How will you cope with all of the extra responsibility mothering more than you already have?
If SS could guarantee support in terms of some financial assistance, offer of support for any behavioural challenges that arise then that might affect things, but it sounds like they will expect you to do it all, which is why I can see the viewpoint of your husband.
So so sorry you are facing this.

Caring for traumatised children can test even the strongest of relationships, even when the children are longed for. OP, unless dh is absolutely on board, this could destroy you and that will be another loss for your niece or nephew.

My traumatise son has tested my marriage, tipped us both into depression and greatly affected our other children. We experience violence most days.

This needs careful thought if you have your own children. Maybe you can still offer a good relationship to these children with regular positive contact?

Would your DH want your kids put in care if anything happened to you both?
Also think your sister needs to stop having babies, these poor kids are being brought into the world to a life of misery. I think she has been badly let down by the services that should have been helping her before it got to 6 kids under 9 needing taken into care. Very sad situation.

"Would your DH want your kids put in care if anything happened to you both?"

But we don't know that the father isn't about-and his family?

I'm not so sure that Op's sister has been let down by ss or her partner?

How do you stop an adult keep having kids & how much support should they be given?

Any future baby the sister has is likely to be removed at birth unless her circumstances have changed positively. A newborn baby is likely to go to foster to adopt, which has huge ethical problems imo but certainly better outcomes than 9 years of neglect followed by going into the care system, or being farmed out to overstretched, overwhelmed extended family, as an older child or pre teen.

admitted into care and then adopted by a family who doesn't have to squash them into a bedroom with 3 others. A family who has the funds to allow them to go to clubs and have new experiences. A family who chose them and wanted them despite what they had been through.

I don't give a fuck, if I was adopted I'd make my adopters life Hell.