Sisters children might be taken into care

[101Familyiseverything]

Not really sure what advice I'm after, If any at all. I just have no idea who to talk to without making my friends sick of my emotions (I'm already sick of my emotions).

My sister will be going to court to find out if her children will be taken into care. This is not really down to her bad choices more her learning ability and how her brain operates differently. It's easy to judge from the outside believe me I was one of them.
Anyway I'm not going to bore you with how she got to this situation, I am however going to bore you with the present situation. It's going to be vague.

After a long process to the final details being rushed by the social worker; my sister will be going to court to fight to keep her children. It's looking unlikely she will get to keep any of them. This is where it gets messy, she has quite a few children so therefore they will be separated. I already have children and can only really find room and the finance to support one child (without my own children having to give up their classes/clubs and being able to ensure the child we take on can be supported with the same treatment. To make them feel welcome into their new home and that the children don't end up resenting one another). My Husband and I had discussed this in great depth only for him to change his mind right at the last minute. There are no words for how I am feeling at the moment. I know we need to be together on this or not at all, but I just can't help but to feel betrayed, let down, and alone. I would without a doubt take in his niece or nephew if he asked me too. I know my way of thinking might be unreasonable but this is my family (my Husbands family by marriage) how can he turn his back on that. It's not ideal but it's happening.

The social worker is pestering me to take more than one child. This is breaking my heart. I feel like a complete monster for not being able to do so and now I might not be able to even take one. If anything happened to my Husband and I, I would want someone from the family to take them in. How on earth could I expect this if we are not prepared to do the same?
My sister is currently finding it difficult to keep the children within the family as it is, let alone adding this to it all.

Has anyone been in a similar situation, did it get resolved for the better?

Thanks for taking the time to read and sorry for the blabber.

How many additional needs do the DCs in question have?

I did this.
It cost me my relationship at the time, ( then fiancé didn't support my decision) my home (I had to move) and my job.
Do I regret it, not ever not even for a single second, no way was I making any other choice but my eldest dd had serious issues and it totally turned my life upside down.

People act like it’s the best thing in the world and so selfless to take on family members children. It damages us still just we are supposed to be great full so are not allowed to talk about it. Silenced and expected to lap up the selfless love of relatives who didn’t actually do a good thing.

I’m no contact with my family foster that I’m supposed to worship the ground that they walk upon for “rescuing” me.

101Familyiseverything is making this decision for her children, above and beyond her husband and herself.

It's staggering that people are claiming that they'd throw their own children into poverty and overcrowding and potentially emotional neglect - being a sole parent to a large number of upset and unsettled children is likely to overwhelm most people.

If 101Familyiseverything chucked her DH out her sister's children wouldn't be the only ones in need of vastly greater amounts of parenting due to their world turning upside down.

If we are going to link to various articles Adeline you might want to take a look at this
ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/ps.2007.58.11.1507a

Which addresses the empirical evidence about pathological embitterment and how it is difficult to see as a separate identity outside of other diagnosis.

This is a tricky one and a situation DP have spoken about as we have addicts on both sides of our family with SS involvement so have discussed at length if we could do it. The answer is usually no and then we both feel so guilty that we say maybe if we did X and Y and cut out Z then it would work. But it's simply out of guilt.

Not everyone is cut out for taking on other peoples kids. It's harsh but it's true.

Sorry, Adaline, my autocorrect keeps messing with your name, it's not a passive aggressive thing

It's staggering that people are claiming that they'd throw their own children into poverty and overcrowding and potentially emotional neglect - being a sole parent to a large number of upset and unsettled children is likely to overwhelm most people.

To me too. And the likelihood is that if they are being removed they aren't just upset and unsettled, they are seriously traumatised. And these traumatised and probably angry children will be, as far as the OP's DCs are concerned, the cause of their family breakdown.

Or maybe some of us have enough experience of the care system that we just would do anything rather than let a child we care about go into it?

Is it necessary for you to assume that I - and other posters who'd consider taking more children in, have no idea about the complexity and difficulty of the potential situation, simply because you would not do the same?

I took my DNeph in for just shy of a year. He was 10 months old. My DC were 2.5YO and newborn. DSis made a very serious attempt on her life and was in hospital for around a month. She then moved in with me whilst she was recovering; on new meds, therapy, etc. But she barely did anything for her DS for the first 6 months. That was all down to me.

If she hadn’t recovered I would have happily kept DNeph and raised him as my own. But she did recover. She moved down the street from me, and started having DNeph on her own a little at a time, building up slowly. By the time he was 3 we had a 50/50 split; by the time he was 6 I had him EOW and half the holidays (and still do now).

It wasn’t easy. It almost broke me.

I would not do it again for another sibling. My DC are much older now and it would impact them too much. If there had been more than one DNeph I wouldn’t have been able to do it either.

Please don’t assume you are going to get financial assistance, or any other assistance such as with behavioural problems.
Looking after children of other family members is called kinship care, or kinship foster care.
I am a kinship carer myself, have a lot of experience of it and know many others in the same situation.
You might get an allowance, less than a foster carer would, if the children are taken into care as they then become Looked After Children and are in the system. Social services will then have PR ( parental responsibility) for the child/children so if placed with you they will be eligible for an allowance.
If you do they they will probably push you to take out an SGO (Special Guardianship Order) for which a much smaller, often means tested, allowance is paid and which is often only short term.
This is a court ordered guardianship, very difficult to break, and will give you overriding PR.
If you volunteer to take a child, or a child is placed with you before they become a LAC child, then you won’t get anything as this will be considered a ‘private arrangement’ for which no allowance is paid.
Social Services, like other public services, are under massive pressure to save money and if they can justify not paying anyone they won’t.
But please don’t just take my word for it.
Before you do anything I suggest contacting family rights group -
www.frg.org.uk
Who are very helpful and knowledgeable.
Hope this makes sense. It’s really quite a minefield and I only wish someone had told me this at the beginning.
All I can say is be very sure of the decision you make and don’t be swayed by emotions or feelings of guilt. It is, most likely, a lifetime commitment and you have to be very, very sure before you do anything.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying you cannot take on another child. Hopefully you would still be able to have contact with them and support them.
I wish you the very best and I hope, whatever your decision, it will be the right one for you and your family.
I’m not trying to be negative at all. More I am trying to counterbalance those OPs saying they would take all the children in a heartbeat. It really isn’t that easy.
I’ll be very happy if I can help any more and you want to pm me.

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to post your opinions.

I thought it was only fair to answer some of the questions you have been asking, without putting out to much info.

My sister has 6 children in total. Other family members will take in some of them which range from 9 to under 1. My Husband as much as I hate his decision, I do love him dearly... I just can't get my head around it and it has come as a complete shock. Family are forever and if I could take them all in I would it's just not practical. Being rehoused isn't an option as we have a mortgage to pay. My Husband and I both work so childcare would need to be taken into consideration. I do need to think about my children's well being as well as everyone else's. I just couldn't bare not helping at all.

You have to do what ultimately works best for your whole family.

My sister had her three children taken away (and I have heard on the grape vine that she may be expecting yet another baby), my son is almost four, the other two are much older, 9 and 10. They were subjected to quite extreme abuse and neglect.

I was not at all capable of taking care of two children with quite significant additional needs due to what they had experienced, to put them with me would have been letting them down. My son only shared a foster placement with his siblings for a short time as he was very very scared by their behaviour.

My son does have some additional needs, he is hearing impaired, has missing toes and as expected finds change etc very difficult, but his needs aren’t at all significant.

At the time when everything blew up I had just bought a one bed flat with my then partner, a partner who travels heavily around the world with his career, someone coming and going really isn’t at all ideal for a child who has experienced trauma. So there were two options, son or partner, both were not an option.

So I had to move out and rent somewhere, for which I was given zero help, oh, I have also received £0 so far from SS.

I love my son very much and I wouldn’t give him back if I was given the opportunity, saying that if I could go back to when I was asked I genuinely don’t know if I would still say yes. I knew leaving my partner would be awful, but I really didn’t think that over two and a half years later that I still miss us as a couple and I still love him.

No matter what pressure other people put on you, or what other people think, you really really need to do what’s best for your family.

Isn't there any way that SS could put a carer in your sister's home to help her to care for the children & keep the family unit together? Putting 6 children in the care system would cost thousands, surely it would be cheaper & better for the children to be kept together in familiar surroundings with extra support?

I think this has to be a family decision, and if the husband (or indeed the other members of the family) says no then that should be respected.

Taking on a child or children, especially ones that may be dealing with issues from their family background, is a massive undertaking and impacts everyone. He’s not wrong to not want to risk his nuclear family by doing this.

"Isn't there any way that SS could put a carer in your sister's home to help her to care for the children & keep the family unit together?"

Surely it has already been tried to help Op's sister parent her own kids though?

Think this kind of situation really depends on individual circumstances. I can only bear my DNs in very tiny, small doses, once a year. They are spoilt and overbearing towards my DC. Personally, my core family are DH and my DC. That’s it. I would be more likely to take in my best friend’s DD then kids of actual family members. The wellbeing and happiness of my own DC comes first.

How many of the kids can your family take?
I would take in the rest of the kids even if they had to share a room and my kids had to give up most of their clubs. I wouldn't see my family taken into care, especially if some of the kids are going to other family members, imagine how 2 or 3 of the kids will feel knowing they weren't wanted enough.

You've put put into the most unimaginable position. Whatever you decide is the right choice for you and you have to make it guilt free knowing it's the right choice.
Of course non of us can possibly understand the situation you are in or any of the details. So what we would do doesn't help you.
However if it was me, I would put my own kids first, then as long as I could cope - my families children next, partner third. But it is a bit like which would you save in a fire! Almost impossible. But ultimately the lives of children can be damaged irreparably in care and I would want to avoid that at all costs. You also mention that you would want family to look after yours in similar circumstances. I feel the same.

imagine how 2 or 3 of the kids will feel knowing they weren't wanted enough.

Or imagine how those young children will feel if they are admitted into care and then adopted by a family who doesn't have to squash them into a bedroom with 3 others. A family who has the funds to allow them to go to clubs and have new experiences. A family who chose them and wanted them despite what they had been through.

Being put into care could be the making of some of these children why would anyone think depriving them of the chance to have a new family would be better than them living with their aunt in an overcrowded house who would likely be a single parent due to her partner not being on board.

I too am very concerned about OP being pushed by PPs' grandiose declarations of 'I couldn't see any of my family in care' into doing something that may very well tear her immediate family unit apart and seriously impact her own children's lives.

I also think the post above about kinship care makes very sobering reading, and suspect SS are pushing for the OP to do this for a reason.

Op, if it were me, in your position - I wouldn't. That doesn't make me heartless. It makes me realistic about what I and my family can realistically cope with and achieve.

Being put into care could be the making of some of these children

It would fly in the face of a mountain of statistics but you never know.

Social services will push for family to take some or all of the children. This doesn't mean it's right for you OP. You, your DH and your children have to be absolutely on board with taking a child into your home forever. It's a head decision more than a heart one. Also your sister may go on to have many more children in future who will have to be taken into care. It can be an endless cycle.