Bloody Sunday prosecution

[Somerville]

Only one man will be prosecuted for murdering civilians at the Bloody Sunday civil rights march.

The long-delayed inquiry found that all the killings were unjustified, that every adult and child who was killed had been unarmed, and that no warnings were gven before soldiers opened fire.

British justice at it's finest, eh?

AnyWalls Do you have to be so rude?

Honestly, why is it derailing to have different views?

Isn't that what having a discussion entails?

Sakura7 earlier on asked for people to engage with them in the discussion which I was doing.

It's difficult for me as an English person to have a view on The Troubles. I only know how it affected us here, which I can have a view on.

I’ve had Bloody Sunday on news alert all day, and the standard of reporting from countries all over this planet (many of which I’ve only been able to read through a google translate, I must admit) has blown me away. A lot less background on ‘the troubles’ than in the typical report written in London... because the reality wasn’t suppressed like it was here. Also because so many other countries can relate due to their own history of experiencing British empiricism.

Bloody Sunday and how the British empire came home
www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/bloody-sunday-british-empire/

Honestly, why is it derailing to have different views?

You do it in every single thread you go on to.

And not just under this username either, I'm pretty sure.

AnyWalls your posts are really unpleasant and rude.

Err you you are wrong I'm afraid. It's fine though for you to just chuck out wild accusations? Maybe if people actually engaged with what people were saying rather than accusing posters, and falsely accusing them the thread wouldn't get derailed?

weetabix
Different views aren’t derailing but (forgive me) uninformed whataboutery really is. And that’s what you kept doing.
When you engaged on the actual issue/the wider issues connected to it, rather than a narrow and unspecific experience of your own, I did engage with you.
I specifically titled this thread “Bloody Sunday prosecution” because that’s what I wanted to discuss.

oh, don’t be so fucking disengenuous, Weet. Not content with derailing, you then gaslight. Like on so many other threads.

Somerville

I appreciate that. And it's an interesting discussion.

Does no one fear any resurgence of the trouble due to this prosecution?

WeepingWillowWeepingWino

My posting history is there for all to see. Anyone can advance search me can't they? I'm not hiding anything. This is de railing - this constant bullying.

Does no one fear any resurgence of the trouble due to this prosecution?

Yes - Loyalists paramilitaries are going to be losing their shit over it. But the prosecution can’t not go forward because of the risk of violence.

Somerville

Would that be an end to the truce do you think?

What do you mean? The ceasefire? Peace process? GFA?
But the answer to all of the above so that none of those can be ended by the violent fuckwits at either extreme.

But the answer to all of the above so that none of those can be ended by the violent fuckwits at either extreme.

Sorry I don't understand what this means?

What I was asking was is there a fear that in prosecuting this soldier that loyalists will then require an as yet not prosecuted republican to be tried? Why on earth didn't they conclude this before the GFA? It surely would have been better for that to have been the final part of the process so that people could move forward?

Soz, typos, I’m breastfeeding a wriggly child.

The inquiry for Bloody Sunday was ageeed and begun during GFA negotiations. Given that it then took more than a decade to conclude, and then another nine years to decide on prosecutions, concluding the whole thing before getting peace would have left more generations growing up in violence.
Lots of things were, in a similar vein, initiated but not concluded. (A big one was an Irish Language Act, which the DUP have been trying to wriggle out of ever since.)

Republican paramilitaries are arrested and convicted for historic and/or new offences regularly. As are Loyalist paramilitaries. People somehow think that the GFA pardoned everyone of everything. It did not, and even those on early release or who got one of Blair’s On The Run letters can be arrested for an old offence as and when new evidence comes to light.

The violent thugs on the extremes have never gone alone with the ceasefire. So even an increase in their violent activity won’t destroy the GFA. Nothing can, except the people of NI losing faith in it (which hasn’t happened - all sections of the community support it more than ever) or either ROI or UK reneging on it.

Well let's hope that this is seen and accepted as fair by all and the right result obtained.

I may be out of line here, but I honestly think that unless you lived through the Troubles every day, then we have no right to criticise the hard choices made via the GFA.

I am glad the soldier is being prosecuted. There is a huge difference between terrorists and supposed peacekeepers. Bloody Sunday was a massive betrayal of NI, and made a mockery of the supposed reason the troops were there.

I wish there had been less of a whitewash. And feel shame for growing up believing the media bias. But I never, ever saw NI Catholics in a bad light. Those in England who dislike Catholics (my ignorant ex MIL for one!), are no better than any other racist scum.

Can anyone recommend any good books which give a comprehensive overview of the Troubles? I want to know more so I can discuss it with my daughter.

Sorry for possible derail.

Oh, and to the other rerailers......shut the fuck up, listen, and have a bit of humility. Unless you were there, your opinion, like mine, means fuck all.

Are you forgetting that there were victims on the mainland too? Were they, or their families asked? Did they get to vote?

As I said, the whole of the Island or Ireland voted, so yes. Or are you thinking about the UK?

As far as I am aware anyone serving a sentence outside NI wasn't released early. There is a new investigation going on in to the Birmingham bombings, if the bombers are found I don't think they will covered by the GFA, please if someone knows if that is right or not correct me.

I quite aware of bombings, shootings etc in England, and they were bad, people died in horrible circumstances, were maimed and traumatised but we experienced 1% of what was happening in NI and generally could call the police if there was a crime, and not worry if we saw a soldier.

Im curious, does it feel like an insult that they are trying one person when there is so much more to it. Like they are half heartedly doing it to say look we are doing something.

This does seem to be a pattern, eg the Duckenfield trial (OK 2 people in that case) and I bet it will be the same if they ever prosecute for Orgreave. I realise that's a bit off topic.

Ballymurphy - well I can see that being similar.

1991 documentary on Bloody Sunday from Channel 4

Are you forgetting that there were victims on the mainland too? Were they, or their families asked? Did they get to vote?

There were victims on the mainland, nobody has forgotten that.

But the fact that you think asking England (your words, not mine) what should happen in NI/Ireland is a good idea, shows you've utterly missed the point entirely.

If England (Britain) had stayed out of Ireland in the first place, all those hundreds of years ago, if they'd realised in 1916 that what they were doing was occupying a country that didn't want them, or had a shred of understanding about the way they were treating Irish people, literally not one bit of it would have happened.

England (Britain) deciding what happens in Ireland/NI caused it all in the first place, so I fail to see how giving them a choice in what happens next would have been a good idea.

Also, the British media has not forgotten, but entirely glossed over any victims in NI who weren't British forces.

In fact, the British establishment and media report referred to bloody Sunday victims as rioters for almost 50 years! When they weren't.

In fact, the British establishment and media report referred to bloody Sunday victims as rioters for almost 50 years! When they weren't.

Some (if not all) were labelled terrorists too.

And it was said that they were armed and taking aim at the soldiers, too. Despite many being shot in the back.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10213807530197547&id=1085875455

Reading a lot of these comments makes me wonder what is happening in the UK at the moment. There is such a febrile feeling with this and Brexit with this huge victim complex being fostered in England and complicated situations being misrepresented on social media, whipping people up into needless outrage. I've just spent the morning reading anti Irish/derogatory Bloody Sunday posts by my English in-laws (I'm Irish) and am so depressed and upset. My husband didn't even know what to do, it's creating such division. Which is the aim of those creating that content. England needs to heal itself but I don't know how.

But the fact that you think asking England (your words, not mine) what should happen in NI/Ireland is a good idea, shows you've utterly missed the point entirely.

I don't think that everyone should have been asked. I would hope that the views of families of victims in England were sought. I don't know if they were invited to take part or not.

You raise the history of Ireland and of the English being there - given that we can't change the past what do you think should be done now?

Almond I’m "Roman" Catholic Said no Catholic ever!