British IS girl has had her baby

[BrizzleMint]

She's had her baby - a son.

Cabinet minister Jeremy Wright told BBC's Andrew Marr programme that the baby's nationality was "not straightforward".

The culture secretary, who was previously attorney general, said the first priority was establishing the health of her and her baby.

She must be the stupidest ISIS mole out there if she can't even hide her true feelings long enough to get back to the UK.

She may very well have wanted to raise the child as a fighter - that still doesn't change our duty of care towards a British baby.

"Presumably she’s had some media training now."

Yes, that's really commonly provided in refugee camps ....

It’s difficult to believe she isn’t receiving unofficial advice and assistance at this point.

I haven't RTFT but the baby's nationality is straightforward, he is a British citizen and therefore entitled to come over.

I also think she is our problem to deal with. Imagine if Syria or any other country abandonned it's terorists in the uk and refused to take them back. There would be outrage.

If the law requires us to recognise her citizenship that is fine by me provided the law also accepts its responsibility to protect me and mine from her.

As for the baby - her parents seem to imagine that they will be allowed to adopt him if if she goes to prison. Given that they have already raised one child who does not appreciate this country I don't think they should be allowed another go.

I'm personally very happy for baby to come back and be adopted far away from this incidous family who have shown nothing but dishonesty, and extremism.

I don't understand why the lot of them are notbeing arrested, we have no Idea whatsoever what crimes this girl is responsible for

A good detraction from Brex-Shit.

A way to stir up anti-islam/ISIS/foreigners in the run up to Tories fuck knows what no deal means incompetence.

This story will run for a month at least

Snow fo you mean her family ought to be arrested?

A way to stir up anti-islam/ISIS/foreigners in the run up to Tories fuck knows what no deal means incompetence.

This is just plain silly. The great majority of muslims in this country live here happily without feeling the need to commit acts of terrorism.

I don't understand why the lot of them are notbeing arrested,

I read that for many returnees, it’s the sheer impossibility of gathering the necessary evidence.

Not a comforting thought.

The great majority of muslims in this country live here happily without feeling the need to commit acts of terrorism.

And are if anything more outraged by the extremists than the general population at large. The problem is that for the media beardy-weirdy extremists are sexy, and have been portrayed as normative, leaving mainstream Muslims thinking, and being told, they are not Muslim enough. Andy Choudary Flying Circus never had more than a few dozen members and was roundly condemned, theologically and practically, by every mosque leader he came into contact with. That didn't stop Newsnight making him the go-to normative Muslim. Which is like asking someone from GAFCON on every time you want to discuss the CofE, but more so.

I agree that her story has been a gift to the media as a way of diverting attention from brexit-will-be-brexshit, but I think now, that the media have made it perhaps impossible for her to come back here. Her wellbeing would be at considerable risk now. I think for the most part the reporting on her situation has been irresponsible. She is vulnerable and also not thinking allowing herself to be interviewed on film. Her face is all over Sky News. Whilst there were pictures before, her face has changed slightly with maturity. I seriously doubt anyone could guarantee her safety should she return.

Its a totally different case but I'm not aware of pictures of Bulger boys being intentionally released post bail. I'm beginning to think she'll have no choice but to stay where she is or maybe go to her husbands country with him should he be found.

I think for the most part the reporting on her situation has been irresponsible. She is vulnerable and also not thinking allowing herself to be interviewed on film.

Yet again, the denial of moral agency. She didn't know what she was getting herself into when she went to Syria. She doesn't know what been happening while she's been in Syria. She isn't responsible for appearing in the media. It's a complete denial of agency: because of a combination of being female and being a Muslim, she's assumed to be a blank slate upon which shadowy forces write their inscrutable message. It's a colonialist narrative: the other, who are like children incapable of making decision.

If a 19 year old white man appeared on TV saying he was an unrepentant white supremacist and had been for the past five years, no-one would start making excuses for him. Indeed, if a 15 year old white man appeared on TV talking about wanting to join the KKK, I doubt there would be many excuses made for him. But she's assumed to completely lack moral agency.

I meant vulnerable at the time of agrreing to being interviewed on camera. She had literally just given birth. She is clearly not thinking about potential ramifications of allowing rolling video coverage with her face uncovered to her future safety.

Saying a person is vulnerable does not absolve them of all responsibility it's just a fact. Doesn't mean she's a sweet kind person. If she came back here tomorrow she would be vulnerable to being attacked.

If a 19 year old white man appeared on TV saying he was an unrepentant white supremacist and had been for the past five years, no-one would start making excuses for him. Indeed, if a 15 year old white man appeared on TV talking about wanting to join the KKK, I doubt there would be many excuses made for him

This is unfortunately true regarding the public perception at large, so I agree there.
People would be calling for his blood definitely.

But I do think her sex is partly what is feeding the sensationism. 'Jihadi Bride' is sooo much more interesting. It's rolling coverage exactly because some people would have sympathy. If she were male it would hardly be worth doing countless phone-ins on various radio programs. The divide in opinion is precisely what's going to keep this story rolling.

I watched the Sky interview and have completely mixed feelings about her future. The interviewer was almost leading her to making better responses, but she bulldozed on regardless.

What puzzles me is why on earth she went. What was so bleak about her future in Bethnal Green (yes, I've been there) that it was more attractive to go to Syria? Watching the Sky interview she mentions the attraction of 'having a family of her own' - she was probably fed up with her mother telling her what to do and wanted a short cut to gaining adult status and being the woman of the house. She possibly wanted to have sex - not uncommon in fifteen year olds. She also talks about the attractions of the idea of establishing a state that is run under religious rules - versus feeling part of an unpopular minority in Britain. She also says that she 'could never have got anyone like her husband back home' - I can see there is something in that, he is Dutch, quite good looking, middle class and a mixed-ethnicity convert. I also suspect that one of the promises of I.S. was that the victors of the jihad would be the new ruling class of the Islamic state, with all the associated money and power that comes with that.

Many fifteen year olds do stupid and illegal things, but this really takes the biscuit. But I don't think she is necessarily a criminal in the same way as returning fighters. I can well believe that she did spend most of those years sitting in some flat or the other, cooking and popping out to the shops.

If my 15 year old son had been “groomed”( a word that I think is over used to absolve responsibility. The Rotherham victims were groomed as they were sought in chip shops etc - the groomers looked for them. In this case she actively looked for material on the internet - completely different) by his mates to murder or abuse someone would be get sympathy because he was groomed, 15, stupid, teenager etc. No he would rightly be arrested and possibly put in prison. She knew what she was doing.

My understanding is that the refugee camp isn’t what our normal understand of one is. This is a camp where ISIS have put the wives and kids. It isn’t full of refugees.

But I do think her sex is partly what is feeding the sensationism. 'Jihadi Bride' is sooo much more interesting. It's rolling coverage exactly because some people would have sympathy. If she were male it would hardly be worth doing countless phone-ins on various radio programs. The divide in opinion is precisely what's going to keep this story rolling

I agree.

I think the reason why it’s different for a woman than a man is because she has deliberately left to have less agency. It’s not like a young male white supremacist because that is just an assertion of existing power.
These women had so much to lose and they did.

It’s gold dust for the Isis, the west goes on about how awful life is for women under their rule and yet here we have young bright women leaving the west and voluntarily giving up their rights to live there.
It’s prime propaganda.

If that’s true it would explain my sense that the person holding the baby was a man.

young bright women

They might’ve been doing well at school, but that doesn’t always convert into critical thinking or even basic common sense.

They might’ve been doing well at school, but that doesn’t always convert into critical thinking or even basic common sense.

Yes I totally agree, it’s not how I would describe them but that’s the narrative that isis can play.

I really don’t have “sympathy” for her.

Who jumps in a viper pit and then asks you to feel bad for the fact they jumped in a viper pit.

I’d still help her out though, and then throw her in prison for all the “good times” she had in Syria. Whatever they were. The child shouldn’t go to the family, they can’t protext a child either.

She may very well have wanted to raise the child as a fighter

She probably still does. On British land where it’s easier to put bombs in to gigs or the underground or drive a car in to people. He can do more damage here so of course she wants to come back.

She didn’t know that women and children were being bombed at those events... oh so sod the men that died as well then. How can we possibly unpick such a mentality?

What was so bleak about her future in Bethnal Green (yes, I've been there) that it was more attractive to go to Syria?

What was so bleak about life in her house that it was more attractive to go to Syria? It's almost axiomatic that these are loving, respectful, supportive families. But their children clearly don't agree.

She didn’t know that women and children were being bombed at those events

She's either very stupid or a dangerous liar. She isn't stupid.

I can well believe that she did spend most of those years sitting in some flat or the other, cooking and popping out to the shops.

I can believe it as well as someone had to do the cooking and cleaning.
Even though she probably didn't carry out any acts of violence herself, she fully, voluntarily supported the regime that did.
She's not an innocent young girl.

I don't think she should be left in Syria though, she's our problem not their's