British IS girl has had her baby

[BrizzleMint]

She's had her baby - a son.

Cabinet minister Jeremy Wright told BBC's Andrew Marr programme that the baby's nationality was "not straightforward".

The culture secretary, who was previously attorney general, said the first priority was establishing the health of her and her baby.

I'm not convinced of the brainwashing argument either although I'm no expert.

15 is young but not a baby and she'd have known about beheadings etc before she "joined" ISIS.

I think she remains a threat to Syrians and British people if she's left in the camp.

You’re right, bring her back and use mi5s already stretched resources to monitor her and keep your fingers crossed. I’m bowing out of this thread because I don’t have anything else to discuss. I’ll just leave this here..

The Manchester Arena suicide bomber was rescued by the Royal Navy from the civil war in Libya three years before he killed 22 people at a pop concert.

Why should Syria watch our criminals Jellycat?

It’s all very well sitting on your podium being virtuous and talking about democracy and a fair judicial system

I'm really not trying to virtue signal. I'm simply talking fact. When I heard the story on Thursday I was similarly minded to leave the traitorous bitch there. But after reflection - something the rolling coverage by irresponsible journos from various elements of the media are actively discouraging - I realised that ultimately this really is about the rule of law as it stands. Our response to this is where the war is being fought. This war is more about ideas, about systems of government. As it is, under international law she cannot remain stateless. Sure we can leave her there. But I believe that would have real consequences further down the line in terms of our position in the world as a leader in human rights. That's our legacy and throwing it away has implications.

We do not know how many people this British newborn baby has already killed, or who he will go on to kill.

He is now two days old I think, and probably doubling in size and strength every 45 minutes.

Under NO circumstances should this newborn baby be brought to these shores

He probably already has amassed an army of similar malnourished babies with which to attack us

Also if we don’t like you you’re not a citizen! Even if that makes you stateless!

Respecting the rule of law and not wanting mob rule makes you a virtue signaler

The Sky Interview shows two things:

She has sunken eyes. She is deeply depressed.

And she has a faceless 'minder' behind a niqab who is not too subtley holding her baby when she speaks.

I had the feeling the minder was a man.

you'd have to have a v unusual psychiatric profile to be susceptible to brain-washing on that sort of scale.

IMO, you’d have to have a psychopathic tendency to ‘flee’, as I keep seeing it described, towards ISIS.

sunken eyes

Really? She looked remarkably well despite recently being subjected to the conditions she claims.

I too wish we could strip citizenship by fiat and leave people stateless

But we have done.

I thought it was a given that anyone who went to join IS became stateless.

Isn’t there a German school girl who went to join IS and at one point was facing the death penalty because of her involvement with IS.

My thought is if IS was not facing defeat would this person want to return to the UK.

There is no regret, just that her current life has got a bit hard and she wants an easier life.

Can't reply now - I have 4 grandsons from 5 to 13 arriving shortly and have to roast a chicken.

But there's an interesting book - The Good Sister by Morgan Jones. It's fiction but closely based on the original runaway case. Lots of detail about what life was like for foreign runaways in the Caliphate. Originally recommended by James O'Brien on his show last autumn.

If a person holds citizenship in more than one country they may be stripped of one in accordance with that country’s law

the U.K. may not however strip uk citizenship from a U.K. citizen born in the U.K. where there is a reasonable belief that so doing would cause the person to become stateless

Here is a link to a bbc article in which Theresa may as Home Secretary said the same:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-30079580

Thanks thyme off to Amazon to have a look. Sounds interesting.

Nobody can be made stateless. Everyone please stop asserting this non-fact.

It seems there is now a BBC interview in the can where she is holding the baby and seeming more contrite.

I know an extreme case but regardless of what you say it appears to have already been done before.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-middle-east-45087824

The UK doesn’t want them here and appears that they want the US to deal with them.

Whose idea was it to allow anyone else to be with her during the interview?

The US expects us to deal with them. Even Donald Trump is advocating we repatriate and try them according to law.

I can’t find the BBC interview. Presumably she’s had some media training now.

I know that UK is signatory to the UN treaty on avoiding statelessness. But that doesn't outright ban it, just makes it the stuff of real exception.

IIRC the last time UK did it was during WW2.

Has there been further treaty or domestic legislation, outlawing it completely?

That's a bit of a side issue though, as the SofS has said it's not happening in her case, and if she makes her way to a British consulate she will be assisted, on the same footing as anyone returning from Syria.

Less clear is what he meant about nationality of child not being clear cut. By which he might mean that her nationality is in a category that is not passed on to a child born overseas, and that the child might be Dutch (depending on their laws about heritability of nationality to DC born overseas to Dutch fathers, who might be technically unmarried). So the DC might not be stateless even without British nationality, but if Dutch then here might be different choices to be made about where the family can reside.

Not yet broadcast:

twitter.com/sommervilletv?lang=en

"Presumably she’s had some media training now."

Yes, that's really commonly provided in refugee camps ....

As of yesterday, she hadn't even managed to be in direct contact with her family about the new baby (according to statement put out by their lawyer) so if she got time online be, wouid media training really be top of her to-do list ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47276572

Tasnime Akunjee (ed: the family solicitor) also told the BBC that her family are prepared to raise her newborn baby "away from IS thinking".

That rather presumes the family aren't themselves part of "IS thinking". And that aside, "prepared" is pretty grudging, isn't it? i suppose it might mean "are putting in place preparations" but I suspect it means "would otherwise, but if the UK insists are willing".

All the families sound pretty nasty, tbh.

twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1097432172133302272

"She says she knew of the IS inspired attacks in Manchester and elsewhere, but hadn’t realised women and children were killed."

Fuck her. Suddenly, the attraction of extra-judicial drone strikes becomes a lot more attractive. Once that nasty thought has gone, she's at least two of malevolent, stupid and dishonest.

Throughout the interview she held her 2 day old son Jarrar. He’s named after her first son who died while she was in the caliphate. She says she would have let her first son become an IS fighter. Now wants her boy “to be British”.

At least she's bracingly honest in wishing this country harm.