British IS girl "wants to return to Britain"

[themoomoo]

Said she has no regrets;
Says she's seen severed heads in bins but it didn't faze her.
Says living with IS lived up to her expectations.
Now she wants to come home to Britain as she's 9 months pregnant.

Sounds an ideal member of any sane society

She can pay her own way

If she is allowed back it should be incarcerated indefinitely

Is she entitled to a trial as well under magna carte or are we abandoning the basic tenants of British law?

@Ribbonsonabox exactly.

It's easy to give human rights to sympathetic cases. Human rights matter and they matter for all humans no matter how repugnant their views.

s she entitled to a trial as well under magna carta

Only if she stands under a gold fringed flag.

So ok those who say she has a right to UK laws. Unfortunately it probably means nothing in this case as she personally can not be tried for terrorist reasons as she has not committed actual attacks. But she is a definite sympathiser so what do we do? Leave her be....keep a good eye on her that turned out well 4 years ago huh. In the meantime innocent UK citizens are at risk for the sake of one person. A case of once again the right of the one/few over the rights of the many

She only wants to return to have her baby.
Then what? Leave and go back?
She doesn't regret it. Therefore would do it again.

Common sense applies here. Why on earth would the powers that be agree to this?

She agrees with isis views. Against the western world.

I just can't see how she she could come home when she doesn't agree with the values or laws we have here?

Consider Weimar Germany (and this is where the German references are relevant) it didn't start with a fire in the Reichstag. It started in peoples homes, at meetings and in newspapers.*

This is from someone who was offended by comparisons to the SS on ideological terms.

I bet you have you have unironically used the term 'reminesant to 1930's' in regards to a Tory government, in fact scrap that I know you have under your username

Its nuts to think British society isn't partially to blame for radicalisation.

On this thread alone there have been multiple Islamophobic and racist comments....and I've never read the daily mail.

Given the way people in Islamic clothing are treated on the streets it isn't difficult to imagine that she might have been spat at, humiliate, called names and told to 'fuck off back where she came from' in the weeks before she headed off to ISIS. And that doesn't even include the non-stop overemphasis on terrorism by Muslims splashed all over all forms of media.

To acknowledge that our society was and is a part of the problem is not to absolve individuals of all fault....it is just admitting partial fault.

I think she is only wanting back to have her baby safely and make sure it doesn't die like the others. Once it's strong enough she will return. So no don't let her back.

But they will and seem to be planning it already. Yay more terrorists..

@Justanotherlurker I was quite specific in my reference to Weimar Germany. It wasn't a "they are all like Nazis post".

My point was, and is, that the decent in to tyranny does not start with a big event like the Reichstag fire. It starts with small incremental steps like unpleasant comments and racist assertions.

Do you find my historical association incorrect?

The point I was making about SS references is that there are times they would be relevant and important and this is not one of those times.

@Jux who made the first reference to the S.S. posted one of the most mature posts I have read on MN. We all make mistakes and that's ok.

So your point is?

Its nuts to think British society isn't partially to blame for radicalisation.

It's nuts to think Islam is partially to blame for radicalisation.

On this thread alone there have been multiple Islamophobic and racist comments....and I've never read the daily mail

There has been multiple posts that utilise IDpol that insinuate it's because she is brown and or because she is female.

Given the way people in Islamic clothing are treated on the streets it isn't difficult to imagine that she might have been spat at, humiliate, called names and told to 'fuck off back where she came from' in the weeks before she headed off to ISIS. And that doesn't even include the non-stop overemphasis on terrorism by Muslims splashed all over all forms of media

Ah there it is, it's our fault that she decided to opt into a death cult and kill and tourter the 'wrong' type of Muslim and not even offer a lame reality TV sob back story!

You being an apologist for ISIS is not any kick back being racist

Also

"Given the way people in Islamic clothing are treated on the streets it isn't difficult to imagine that she might have been spat at, humiliate, called names and told to 'fuck off back where she came from' in"

I bet you have glanced over the many headlines that have had small redactions when it's found out that said story was to appease parents because they was becoming more western.

The echo chambers and being driven by tabloid headlines isn't restricted to the useless term that is 'alt right', everyone is being played in the devide and conquer

it's our fault

No it's not as simple as that, nothing is. There are however multiple reasons why people make extreme decisions and it is worth considering society's culpability in some elements of that decision.

It is not as easy as 2+2=4. We need to look at the complex factors involved and living in a racist society will have played some part. Free will is also an important factor which is why we have a justice system and if this person has broken the law they should be prosecuted.

I really wouldn’t take what this journalist has reported as the truth
My opinion ( actually my own experience if I am honest ) is they have a marvellous ability to put words in ones mouth ..the journalist has a ( sleazy in my view ) job to do and portraying her as repentant isn’t going to sell papers .

Fact is we have no idea of the truth yet. Just the words of a journalist who flew out to a refugee camp and probably stayed in the nearest 5 star hotel
She was a stupid impressionable 15 year old at the time ....2 years older than my own stupid impressionable Ds who knows everything and “ hates me “ and has some pretty alarming ideas at times .
She is now a heavily pregnant 19 year old.
Isis is beyond horrific , she was incredibly lucky to get out
Imagine if you were her mum and dad , that baby’s grandparents ?.

By all means she must be watched and monitored . Closely . Her choice to wear or not wear hijab is irrelevant and I have read some extremely ignorant and islamophobic comments in regards to this , which are unhelpful in my view and cloud this incredibly important matter .

I’m not going to go into specifics but I was very involved with a Muslim man at one point that belonged to a questionable mosque.This man wasn’t a terrorist. He was actually really gentle and kind. But the point is, I asked him once, what do you do if someone expresses extremeist views? He said we talk to them and pray for them. I asked him would they ever report the person to authorities and he said no, that wouldn’t happen. I have no doubt that Muslims are both saddened and disgusted by some of the acts perpetrated by ISIS members, but would they report someone who expressed worrying views? No. If the Muslim community themselves took more of a stand against the terrorists in their midst then maybe we could feel more reassured but they don’t. They won’t condone her actions, they will pray for her. But will they alert authorities if she starts preaching hatred. No.

I agree that we only have what the journalist says and it worries me too, but in a different way - for all we know she may be capable or producing sophisticated bombs or be a really good sniper. We don't even know for sure that she has had two children; we only have her word for it.

My point was, and is, that the decent in to tyranny does not start with a big event like the Reichstag fire. It starts with small incremental steps like unpleasant comments and racist assertions.

That is exactly the same rhetoric that the far right use with regards to Muslims

The slippery slope argument can be used either way, but it was you who initially jumped on the comparison to Nazis being somewhat discriminatory, yet here you are making those accusations.

There are however multiple reasons why people make extreme decisions and it is worth considering society's culpability in some elements of that decision.

There is, but when the elephant in the room raises its head it's usually brushed aside as being a tabloid daily mail reader. Geopolitics cannot be neatly black and white, good Vs evil terms.

I agree about child, but not mother. She chose to be a traitor to her country, why should we fund any trial, incarceration when the NHS are in dire financial difficulties? I'd rather my taxes go to the NHS than her.

We don't know what horror she's perpetrated..any one reading accounts behind Isis lines of wives of jihadis patroling local neighborhood s whipping, beating women who have not worn correct clothing... torture in many cases Etc... she needs too stand trial...

The child must be adopted... not safe in that family...

Justanotherlurker My point was about how democracy can be eroded. I will say it again it was not an hysterical "look at the Nazis!" point.

It was point about diminished democracy so was more about Weimar than the Nazis. And as I said before on this thread there are times when the lessons from Weimar are relevant and need to be considered.

Comparing a 15 year old girl to the Waffen SS was not a reasonable assertion - as the person who first made it has admitted!

I am not sure how the slippery slope argument about diminished democracy can be applied to Muslims.

SonEtLumiere exactly we have the capacity under the rule of law to prosecute British citizens who break national and international law we should follow our procedures and not grab our pitchforks.