British IS girl "wants to return to Britain"

[themoomoo]

Said she has no regrets;
Says she's seen severed heads in bins but it didn't faze her.
Says living with IS lived up to her expectations.
Now she wants to come home to Britain as she's 9 months pregnant.

Sounds an ideal member of any sane society

Moussemouse I apologise for my ignorant 'Nazi' post. I don't know why I posted, but thank you - I do mean this - for handing me my arse. FWIW, I agree with everything you have said on this thread.

I also apologise to everyone who was offended or made angry by that post.

To prevent her and not them is very unfair but she’s a women so will be flamed by default.

They aren't preventing her though, so I'm not sure why you are trying to insinuate sexism?

So around 2% of terrorist attacks in Europe are committed by Muslims.

That's good to know...as the fact they are wildly outnumbered by terrorist attacks in Europe committed by Christians.

Its also just occurred to me that given her age when she left, Begum was very likely the victim of statutory rape.

M3lon, yes... I think quite a lot of people remember another, slightly earlier Manchester bombing.

Its also just occurred to me that given her age when she left, Begum was very likely the victim of statutory rape.

No she wasn't. She was 15, and in UK law it is only presumed to be rape if the child is under 13. The offence would be Sexual activity with a child, Sexual Offences Act 2003 S.9, where there are defences if the accused reasonably believes the child to be 16.

But in any event, in much of the middle east the age of consent doesn't exist, and it suffices for the couple to be married. Which can happen at 15, and a lot less. She was married to her husband. There is no offence here.

hmm...so if a British child is raped by a British family member while on holiday in Dubai then no crime has been committed? I would be really surprised if that's true....though the law is certainly not always moral...so it might be!

In this case her husband was also an EU citizen...so it would be rape if it happened in either country of origin.

So the question is can you generally have sex with 15 yo as long as you do it in another country...

If yes then I'm thinking differently about school trips!

They would claim it was rightful under their religious laws. Justified along with the savagery.

This girl essentially joined a cult and is now being told she's not allowed to leave it.

There is every indication she has no desire to leave it. She seems to maintain the same attitudes, still hoping for the caliphate, still thinking ill-defined 'enemies of Islam' deserve beheading.
Trojan horse.

Women have very little freedom under isis

Exactly - and yet she has been able to leave her own home, speak to a man who is not her husband (the reporter) and request to come back to the place of her birth. This suggests either a lot of freedom, or a hidden agenda.

so if a British child is raped by a British family member while on holiday in Dubai then no crime has been committed?

If they're raped under Dubai law, there is a crime.

If they're raped under UK law, but not Dubai law, there is no crime. Extraterritoriality is a very rare thing in law.

Do you think that if two unmarried Saudi citizens come to London and have sex, we should extradite them back to Saudi Arabia?

In other news, American 18 year olds can drink in London (there was a bizarre Reddit thread complaining about this last year), British citizens can smoke cannabis in Holland, etc, etc.

In this case her husband was also an EU citizen...so it would be rape if it happened in either country of origin.

Crimes occur in the country, and under the law, where they take place. The citizenship of the participants, be they victim or perpetrator, is largely irrelevant.

So the question is can you generally have sex with 15 yo as long as you do it in another country...

Yes, if it's legal in that country. No, if it's isn't.

British 19 year olds can't drink in New York, either, much to their annoyance.

so if a British child is raped by a British family member while on holiday in Dubai then no crime has been committed?

Only if she was married to the family member.

If they weren't married, that would be considered a crime. I don't know what would happen to the man involved, but the girl would certainly be severely punished.

Also why are people frothing so much about what this young woman has done?

You do realise that loads of young male British citizens who went to fight for IS have been allowed back in the country?

But this fifteen year old child when she went, everyone throws their fucking toys out of the pram over it.

Indeed!

Extraterritoriality is a very rare thing in law.

Doesn't it exist for sexual offences to stop the Thailand sex tourist ?

Indeed, DGR, my memory was flaky. I knew that we will prosecute on behalf of other countries if the act is illegal both here and there, but had forgotten that applies to UK residents. For UK nationals (ie, not relevant to this case, as the purported husband is Dutch, but relevant to the Dubai family rape" example) then it's just sufficient that it be an offence here. My mistake.

However, I doubt that's going to be used about 15 year olds on a school trip.

But in any event, in much of the middle east the age of consent doesn't exist, and it suffices for the couple to be married

Poppycock (though illegal child marriage can be an issue).

Age of consent:

Syria: 15
Jordan: 16
Iraq: 18
Lebanon: 18
Bahrain: 21 ( the highest age of consent in the world! For Nigeria, it is 11 - ugh)

In countries where sex is lawful in marriage, minimum age for marriage:

Algeria: 18
Egypt: 16
Iran: 13
Morocco: 18
Tunisia: 20
Yemen: 15

reflect thank for the info - that's genuinely interesting....and also urgh wrt sex tourism...bleh in general really.

11 in nigeria....good grief. Interesting that the lowest age of consent is in a majority Christian country.

hmm technically Nigeria is not in fact majority Christian...Christianity is the largest religion but only 49.8%....apologies.

(I was a bit shocked by the age of consent in Nigeria. Philippines is hot on its heels at 12, then Japan at 13)

Surely someone who goes abroad and pledges their loyalty to an ‘army’ that is pledged to the destruction of their native country would meet the legal definition of a traitor?

She’s not remorseful, she’s just realised that ISIS doesn’t provide great maternity care or child benefit and so she’d like to return to the country she’d like to destroy.

I also wouldn’t be keen on having her as a neighbour.

There’s no shortage of information on what ISIS is all about. How is she the victim here?

About the deaths of her children - I wonder if they died of diarrhoeic disease if they were staying somewhere with poor sanitation. Small children and babies are especially vulnerable in a way the mother herself is not.

So the problem might not have been lack of food, but they still might have wasted away after failure to thrive.

Surely someone who goes abroad and pledges their loyalty to an ‘army’ that is pledged to the destruction of their native country would meet the legal definition of a traitor?

There hasn't been a treason trial since 1945 (William Joyce, "Lord Haw Haw") and I doubt anyone is keen to go there in order to deal with a stupid 19 year old.

would meet the legal definition of a traitor?

In which case in a society governed by the Rule of Law she should be prosecuted.

Why is this so hard to grasp? In the U.K. we are governed by the law. A British citizen has rights. If she has the right to return she can come back to the U.K. where the law will be implemented.

As a society we promote justice not vengeance.

If we abandon human rights and the rule of law then we become all that we claim to despise.

We have not seen the last of whatever the next incarnation of this terrorist organisation is. Do people really think that all the returned fighters, brides etc just went back to their own countries and thought "oh well, that didn't work, back to my old life". Of course not. Added to that the recruiting to the ideology that is still going on constantly. The whole world is connected these days and these people will not give up that easily.

This "girl" is dangerous. She's lived that life for four years and she enjoyed it! Putting her in prison is also dangerous, a closed space where she can preach her hatred to women who are already marginalised from society. It goes on a lot in male prisons already. We may not want to face up to it but there will be a subsection of women to whom she is a hero and role model.

I don't wish ill on her baby, I really don't. But I truly hope she doesn't make it back here. Her brain has been molded at that crucial time between becoming a girl and a young woman. There isn't a "deprogramming" that exists that can reverse that.

This "girl" is dangerous

And in open and free societies where people believe in freedom of speech people do have dangerous beliefs.

If we start imprisoning, persecuting and punishing people whose beliefs we don't agree with who do we become?