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What plans do you have for your old age? Do you expect your children to be involved as carers?

315 replies

bibbitybobbityyhat · 11/02/2019 20:04

I know it sounds like a journalisty question, but honestly it's not! I'm just a regular Mumsnetter.

My plans for my old age very emphatically include not relying on my children (who will hopefully be parents of youngish adults or teens by the time I get there) to look after me or worry about me or support me in any way.

If I'm lucky enough to get there, I expect to be living in sheltered accommodation by the time I'm 80. I plan to save enough for private carers if/when I need them, but if that can't be done, then I'll go and live in a nursing home without making my children feel guilty about it!

I had my children quite late (as my mother had me - she was 31! but old at the time) so I am aware they could be in the sandwich generation and I just don't want any extra on their shoulders.

OP posts:
TinklyLittleLaugh · 13/02/2019 21:36

I’m resuming you haven’t had much to do with care homes Archery Annie? The majority of them are pretty grim and even when the staff are well intentioned they are often to busy to respond very well to a person’s needs.

FIL was in one for a week between hospital and moving in with us. We’d frequently visit to find him sitting in his own mess, inadequately hydrated and once with a cheese sandwich placed tantalisingly out of reach. Just as well though, since he has an impaired swallow and chokes on anything other than a purée.

This was a care home rated satisfactory.

ArcheryAnnie · 13/02/2019 23:51

Tinkly working in a care home was one of my first jobs as a teenager, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. It was a council place, and great.

I've no doubt that plenty of care homes are awful, and the staff overstretched, but the answer to that is to improve them, not condemn them as a place of last resort for people who don't care about their parents.

My mum didn't go into a care home because she didn't want to. If I want to, I don't want people thinking my DS is an ungrateful monster for not stopping me. (But they probably wouldn't because he's a son, and sons get away with it, while daughters are just expected to set their own lives aside to care for ageing relatives.)

HeddaGarbled · 14/02/2019 00:16

I distinctly remember my mum saying (when caring for her own mum), when I get old, just shoot me. Now she is old and of course, she doesn’t want anyone to shoot her. She lives in an adapted bungalow and gets a lot of paid support (cleaner, gardener, home hairdresser, meal delivery, emergency call bracelet) and community support from local voluntary organisations. She relies very heavily on me for company, emotional support, administration, transport etc, but the “care” is outsourced. If she gets to the point when she can’t manage at home, she will move to a care home and her house will be sold.

My dad had dementia and after my mum and I (mostly my mum) struggled to care for him at home for a number of years, he was admitted to a care home, mostly funded by social services but with a deduction from his pension. He was very well cared for there and the staff treated him (and my mum, who visited most days) with compassion and respect.

NameChanger22 · 14/02/2019 00:40

I plan to sell my house and buy a cheaper house further north. With the extra cash I will be off on a round the world trip, maybe for a few years. While I'm away I might take up smoking and drinking so I can die sooner rather than later and nobody has to look after me when I'm really old. The cheap house will be waiting for me in case I don't manage to kill myself off early.

helacells · 14/02/2019 01:09

Absolutely! Just as I am a carer for my DM. It's expected in many cultures and rightly so. Why should strangers look after you in old age? That's just barbaric.

zzzzz · 14/02/2019 07:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gina2012 · 14/02/2019 07:39

I distinctly remember my mum saying (when caring for her own mum), when I get old, just shoot me. Now she is old and of course, she doesn’t want anyone to shoot her

Exactly

And this is my point - with the greatest respect to all you people talking about not bothering your kids and dignitas

It is , ime, very unlikely that you will get old and have the brain you do now

You may not have dementia but you will have an old brain and a strong human will to live and push the boundaries of life

You will also, imo, have the elderly 'me me' gene kick in, even though you can't imagine that now

I am partly in awe and partly appalled at how my fiercely feistily independent father has become someone who expects help - you could not have called this turn of events 5 years ago

Fairylea · 14/02/2019 07:54

My mum always said she would go to dignitas after nursing my gran through terminal bowel cancer. She is now going through terminal cancer herself and is clinging on to life with everything she has - even though she is now at the stage where she is choking on her food as she can’t move her throat muscles properly and the cancer in her back is crushing her spine.

At what point does someone decide to die? By the time most people have had enough they don’t have the marbles or ability to make that decision.

BadlyAgedMemes · 14/02/2019 08:47

My great aunt did decide to die. It was all rather sad. She was in her 80s and had been living completely independently, despite some health problems. I don't remember the reason she had to go to hospital, but the medical opinion seemed to be that she could make a full recovery and return to living independently. But she decided she would die, and told so to her friends and family. She refused food and water, and further treatment, and did indeed die quite quickly. She was in completely control of her marbles, so there was no side stepping her own wishes. So it doesn't require a trip to Dignitas, if one's really determined to die. :(

I don't know what made great aunt to want to die, by the way. My DM blames her relatives. GA had been persuaded to sell her apartment to some relatives, and while she had been living there rent free, relatives had also been "Swedish death cleaning" for her while she was still alive, and GA generally had decided that people didn't want her around anymore, and her apartment must be needed by others more than her. Angry

juneau · 14/02/2019 09:43

The Swedish 'death clean' is a great idea, but an even better one is regular clearing out of your home and possessions so they don't build up to a level that is daunting for either the person, or their grieving relatives. I agree with shredding old letters and diaries once you get to a certain stage of life (and I certainly plan to do that), but keeping on top of paperwork, shredding anything that's not needed after three years, only keeping the most recent statements from banks and pension providers, keeping all the really important stuff in a filing box together to make it easy for family members to locate accounts, providers and contact details is just a kind and considerate thing to do.

When FIL died (after a 2-year cancer battle), he'd left his affairs in a dreadful state and there was no excuse as he'd been sitting around at home that whole time. He had more than 20 bank accounts, huge collections of coins, guns, toys, all kinds of crap that my grieving DH had to sort out because his DM and DSis were too upset to deal with - he had 10 days of trying to sort it all out before he flew home and it was a really upsetting and unnecessary ordeal. If only his dad had bothered to sort it all out when he knew he was gravely ill my DH could have had some quality time with his family - but no - he was elbow deep in drawers stuffed with years' worth of papers and other shit.

BadlyAgedMemes · 14/02/2019 10:03

I agree with shredding old letters and diaries once you get to a certain stage of life (and I certainly plan to do that)

I'm undecided about that. None of my grandparents (apparently) did this, and it was definitely the best part of cleaning after they had died to read things like letters. I assume they might have got rid of ones they really didn't want anyone to ever see, of course, but some of the stuff that came out in old papers was all new to us, and illuminated many things. And well, it's just nice to read letters your great-granddad and grandmother wrote to each other when GGD worked away, about their tiny children and animals and everyday things...

I kept a diary when I was young, and have a cardboard box full of the things somewhere. They're very cringe-worthy, and I have no idea if DNs would hate me if I left them, or be interested. Otherwise I have had a few good burnings over the years.

SnuggyBuggy · 14/02/2019 11:06

@BadlyAgedMemes, I lost a family member in a similar way. In her case I don't think she was mentally prepared for the infirmity of old age, she'd been healthy all her life and once she couldn't live independently stopped wanting to live.

kenandbarbie · 14/02/2019 12:07

I like the idea of being looked after by a combo of extended family and carers in a granny flat. That's what happened to my parents and it worked out well for everyone. Grandchildren got the benefit of having their grandparents around, parents happy to remain with their family. Yes there was effort bringing them to appointments, cooking for them etc. but it's worth it.

Oliversmumsarmy · 14/02/2019 12:08

BadlyAgedMemes

This is why I don’t believe in assisted suicide as you would get more families doing the same with doctors and the law on their side.

Am I the only one who wants to live forever/have eternal youth.

I can’t imagine being not able to do stuff for myself and to some I am old already.

I still have teens at home.

Crinescene · 15/02/2019 16:08

The PP who made the point about prudence has it bang on the nail. It must be galling to think if you had just spent it all anyway at least you would have got your money’s worth. Let the people who are going to inherit your house look after you in that case when the time comes as nothing in this world comes free and sometimes it’s cheaper to pay with money rather than be beholden.

I fully expect DC to be up and away and will make my own arrangements when time comes.

OneStepMoreFun · 16/02/2019 08:44

@Oliversmumsarmy
Am I the only one who wants to live forever/have eternal youth

I really admire/am intrigued by people who have this attitude. I absolutley don't. I've never understood people who turn to Christianity because they think it gives you life everlasting. That's the least appealing bit of it ime.
I need a deadline (pun intended.) I need to know my time is running out so I'd better get on and do what I want to do, see what and who I want to see, be loving and attentive to DC and DH.
The idea of another 50 years or so just puzzles me, What would I do with them?
I'm genuinely intrigued by your feeling. What do you want to do with that long long life that you can't do in a shorter one?

Oliversmumsarmy · 16/02/2019 11:32

OneStepMoreFun

There are so many careers I would want to pursue.

I rather fancy if I looked 40 years younger to spend a few years as a rep in Ibiza, then living in France renovating an old chateaux, working as a diver in the South Seas, Trekking across Africa, America or running a ski chalet in Switzerland or running a B&B in New York or running a vineyard in California. So many things I haven’t done and so many people I haven’t met.

Life is too short I do want forever. I can’t inderstand why anyone wants a cut off point. I want my children and their children to have the same

blueskiesovertheforest · 16/02/2019 11:57

Oliversmumsarmy I think you're missing the point with the "am I the only one who wants eternal youth?" question.

Eternal youth isn't on offer. If it was there'd be no question of carers.

Virtually everyone (with the exception of some who have been through unbearable bereavement or mental trauma) would want a long, healthy, strong, vibrant, productive, independent, comfortable life if it were on offer. That's just the stuff of science fiction though.

The question is, back in reality, about what you want when your body or mind fails you due to aging to the degree you need carers to allow you to live in humane conditions. Do you want your kids to be your carers, do you want to have paid carers so as not to severely impact your kids lives and force them to give up work, or do you hope to be able to end it all when you can no longer cope independently, before the point at which you don't recognise your children, are doubly incontinent, are bed ridden and in constant discomfort. Not to you want tolive forever in the body of a healthy 25 year old...

IrmaFayLear · 16/02/2019 12:50

Exactly. What a silly point to say that the desire for eternal youth = euthanasia bad idea.

Life can be extended now... but not improved really, let alone having the clock turned back.

And, again, [exasperated emoji] at people bleating that they wouldn't consider putting their parents in a home. Would you give up your job to look after your in-laws? Or think it appropriate that your dh should? Could you cope with a violent, abusive and doubly incontinent person? One who is awake all night and sleeps all day? One who can only be moved with a hoist and who has extensive skin breakdown such that they have to be sedated ? But who is otherwise in good health and can go on like this for ten years or more? If so then you are a better person than anyone in our family.

Whoops75 · 16/02/2019 13:01

My mother has early dementia, she went from having a large circle of friends to only seeing us, her children.
It’s definitely not what she would have wanted but she is scared and only feels safe with us.
Is an impossible situation as we are all busy with work and young children.
She/we never saw this coming, it gradually crept up disguised as side effects of medication.
Sad

PlasticPatty · 16/02/2019 13:18

My 'plan' is to stop eating and drinking as soon as anything appears untoward. Ideally I'd be dead in a few days but realistically, it might stretch on. I hope I am strong enough to do it.

I'm on my 'death clean' now, but it's a slow process, taking years.

My dad is 86. I'm 61. He will probably outlive me.

Fairyliz · 16/02/2019 13:36

I'm another one laughing at all of those morally superior people who won't put their parents in a home.

Have you actually cared for anyone with dementia? Are you prepared to give up your whole life for them? I'm not talking about 9 - 6 like a normal job I'm talking 24/7.

Can you remember what it was like having a newborn? Just imagine that, but they are 10 stones heavier, you can't put them in a cot for five minutes if it all becomes too much, it could go on for 10 years and they never get any better, and to top it all you will probably be 30 years older.

Still airily saying you will look after your DP's?

Echobelly · 16/02/2019 13:49

I dunno about plans but if I get old I'm kind of hoping people will have changed their minds about assisted suicide so that I can end it before needing constant care and having everything that might go to my kids spent on keeping me alive in a miserable state. I'm such an optimist! But honestly, I do think by the time my generation (I'm in early 40s) gets to old age serious questions will be asked about quality v quality of life as many of us will have seen our parents and grandparents have their last years eked out in extreme frailty and illness.

More pragmatically, I think our pensions won't be great so we're kind of relying on property, though I can't believe the current price cycle is sustainable and I don't want to rely on that, but worse case we have a big enough place to potentially adapt it into a two flats, live downstairs and rent out the upstairs for quite a lot to fund retirement decently.

I'm not expecting kids to be able to look after us.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 16/02/2019 13:56

Re what they do 'in other cultures', not long ago I was discussing this with an Indian friend who lives in Mumbai, but who we see every summer. I said how often we in the UK are berated for 'dumping' our elderly in care homes, when 'in other cultures' people look after their own. The pious beraters are nearly always politicians, or celebrities, who typically will have not a clue about what it's like to care with someone with dementia 24/7.

My Indian friend said it was rubbish. Her own very elderly mother - with dementia - was looked after in her own home many miles away, by two live in carers, such arrangements being considerably cheaper and easier to organise, as my friend pointed out, in India than in the UK. She also said that such arrangements were quite common among those who can afford it. For those who can't, there is probably little or no choice.

My dd worked for a while in Cambodia, where in a poor village she witnessed the care of an elderly grandmother with dementia. The woman, who was incontinent, was tied to a chair outside all day, to stop her either messing up the house, or wandering off and getting lost. At the end of the day she would be hosed off outside.
I suspect that this sort of thing is the reality for the poor in many countries.

As for care homes, I don't know anyone who has taken the care home decision without a very heavy heart - usually when relatives have done their best, but simply can no longer cope with the 24/7 care now needed - and by that I mean someone on hand all day, all night, 365 days a year.

My mother finally went into a care home after such care had become an urgent necessity. She was then 89, and lived to 97. The home, which was a specialist for dementia, was extremely good - cosy and homely, with excellent staff. All care homes are not grim - far from it.

Charley50 · 16/02/2019 14:03

My DM always said she didn't want us to look after her when she got old, and that she would arrange sheltered housing etc.
None of that happened and losing her independence has crept up slowly over the last ten years. Now she is completely dependent on us kids, plus carers for everything.

She has become selfish like a small child, as her world is so small. So when I'm leaving her all she asks is when I'm coming back. My own life, work, need to care for children etc. is of no concern to her anymore. Just that she is looked after as she is genuinely helpless.

One poster mentioned a living will. That's on my list of things to do. If I don't die before very old age, I don't want to be kept alive with antibiotics. I really hope with have assisted dying in the UK before I'm old.
But I watch my mum cling onto life and I agree with PPs that a lot of us will change our minds once we are old ourselves.