What plans do you have for your old age? Do you expect your children to be involved as carers?

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

I know it sounds like a journalisty question, but honestly it's not! I'm just a regular Mumsnetter.

My plans for my old age very emphatically include not relying on my children (who will hopefully be parents of youngish adults or teens by the time I get there) to look after me or worry about me or support me in any way.

If I'm lucky enough to get there, I expect to be living in sheltered accommodation by the time I'm 80. I plan to save enough for private carers if/when I need them, but if that can't be done, then I'll go and live in a nursing home without making my children feel guilty about it!

I had my children quite late (as my mother had me - she was 31! but old at the time) so I am aware they could be in the sandwich generation and I just don't want any extra on their shoulders.

We took care of our grandparents in their old age as a family and kept them at home.

We did this too with my DGM who had Alzheimers. It was a lovely idea. She had feared and hated the whole care home thing. My DM could afford to become a fulltime carer. In lots of ways it allowed DGM to live more comfortably those last few years when she still had some enjoyment left in life: she could sleep when be awake without a regiment, could sit in the sun in garden whenever, could have her favourite foods etc.

It definitely came with a cost to the rest of us, though. Nearly every night there was some poo crisis or another. (I associate a mixed scent of shit and bleach with those years.) Intimate care was very difficult, as DGM would get confused and experienced it as an assault, no matter how gentle DM tried to be. My parents were stressed and fought a lot. I was a teenager and honestly ended up trying to spend less and less time at home, and preferred not to bring any friends. DP were too preoccupied to notice my eating disorder. I had to take part in the care stuff quite a bit, as DF worked long days, and DM needed help. It was not a fun time, even though I don't wish that DGM hadn't been with us. (I'd been very close to her, but I was young enough when she started getting sick, that the Alzheimers and her living in a different reality to us seemed every day to me, but I expect it was hard on my parents.)

Not sure what my point is, other than it's not always a particularly idyllic situation, and there's definitely more to think when making these decisions than the concept of GP getting to be surrounded by family (fun fact: by the time DGM moved to live with us, she thought I was her junior at work! She was a firm and slightly disapproving "boss"!)

I think maybe as a society we need to talk more frankly about our legal options when it comes to ANDs, ceilings of care and advance directives as well as how to plan for old age. A lot of trouble comes from acting like it isn't going to happen.

interesting to hear "it's a cultural thing" - many posters won't say if they are part of a particular culture. I could argue I did caring for that reason but it would be rubbish! Apart from anything else, we were very lucky I was able to afford to do it.

I hate this term "rot" in a home. If a home is ever the right place for mum, she will go. My best mate recently had to put her uncle in a home and he is a changed man - has improved in leaps and bounds. Unfortunately he is not of full capacity - I think he might have asked to go in a home before but he didn't have the right way to communicate it.

It's all very well saying that you'd go to Dignitas, or whatever, but if you ever develop dementia past a certain stage, God forbid, you will very likely a) not be able to understand or remember that there's anything wrong with you, and b) even if you had a plan for Dignitas, or had a stash of pills hidden away, you would almost certainly forget that you wanted or planned any such thing.

Generally, you'll be diagnosed with dementia before you get to that stage and could then put the necessaries in place or take a huge pre-emptive strike and get out before it gets to that stage.

Mil is currently ruining Sil's life - we live too far away to help.
No one wants to tell MIL that she needs to start relying on paid help as she cries and gets very upset. Sil is on the verge of a nervous breakdown. The situation is tearing the family apart - who would want this for their kids?
This post has been incredibly useful, mil can see the effect it's having on sil but she continues to insist she does everything, even the cleaning and the gardening - she won't spend a penny - it's time we stopped being ruled by the fear of upsetting MIL because that fear is resulting in everyone else being upset - all the time!

Ii think with Dignitas you get 6 months post dementia diagnosis to check in, otherwise you are deemed past capacity. The trouble with this is that upon initial diagnosis, you probably don't feel too bad. Probably have good days when you're enjoying life and couldn't contemplate death. I also read an interesting article where in Holland a wife was angry because her dementia-diagnosed husband initially agreed to euthanasia and then backtracked. She knew what the future would be like, but he couldn't be "brave" as she called it. This raises the question of coercion and selfishness (on both sides).

I always steam when I see posters say, "I wouldn't put my parents in a home."

Dementia is not a little bit of dottiness. It might start out like that, but boy, it's hard on anyone trying to manage in a home situation. Incontinence is common (double), so is losing the idea of time, so someone could be regularly roaming around at 3 or 4 am and sleeping all day which is an absolute killer for the carer. Professional carers will be coming in at all sorts of hours, and you have to be there to let them in, so you are tied to the house. And also there's the personality change. Mil was angry, violent, used foul language and prone to attack.

Fil also has dementia. He has been in a home for six years. He doesn't know who he is, who his dcs are, where he is. He sits in a big nappy and eats. He is very healthy and could live for years, according to the home.

I come from an Indian background too and I think there is a different attitude to caring for the elderly. People will hate to admit this though.

I'll get flamed for this but at the same time I'm happy to admit that we Indians have a woeful attitude towards women for example so it's not just prejudice and bias.

I'm shocked at the number of people who think that their elderly parents are selfish for wanting to be cared for by their children. Once the services offered by places like Dignitas become legalised in the uk I can see many elderly people feeling pressured to go there if they think that they're being selfish by hanging on.

We did care for our grandparents at home and it was tough. My teenage siblings who lived at home dealt with intimate care and found it hard at times. I hope our grandparents didn't feel a burden because they never were.

Faffandahalf That all sounds really lovely, but in many cases, care for an older person requires someone being aryound full time and that means someone has to make a sacrifice.

My DS has a friend who was pulled out of uni by her parents to care for grandparents; she was deemed the least likely of the children to have a stellar career. It’s very sad.

Obviously if there is someone in the family who is at the right life stage to take on the main caring role, then that’s fine, but it can’t always be the case.

Irma, the reality is that people don’t understand things usually till they experience it themselves. Sometimes I think ‘well actually it’s a good thing they are ignorant of XYZ’.

Indian families are often big though so the care is distributed among many which makes it easier.

I would worry if I had an only child that they wouldn't cope with caring for DH and me.

I have four siblings so it does make the job easier when it comes to our parents.

The system for providing elderly care isn't sounding sustainable if there are long waiting lists for homes and a shortage of carers. It's such a badly paid and difficult job that I can understand that there aren't large numbers of people wanting to do it.

The model of one relative providing full time 1:1 care isn't great either and seems to lead to burnout and won't be an option for those without children that can do it.

Maybe technology is the answer.

I love my parents an look forward to giving back to them when they need me but if the requirement is for me to lose any freedom in my life and my children to suffer in order to care for them, then we will make alternative arrangements that suit everyone best. I’ll happily inconvenience myself for them, give them time and care, but neither they nor I would want to make life utterly miserable for me and my DH and children.

PersonaNonGarter
"Most posters cannot conceive of being elderly as distinct from ill/infirm. Elderly means not being able to walk distances or do dexterous things like tie shoe laces or cook anything sophisticated.

Presumably you aren’t all trotting off to Dignitas just because the teapot is feeling heavy and it is hard to get in and out of the bath."

What on earth makes you say that? Why do you think most people on this thread don't know the difference between being elderly and being incapacitated? I can't see any evidence of it.

Hopefully the Swiss model will be acceptable and law in the UK by the time I'm really old if I need it. If I don't, just a bit of help with getting jobs done around the house, cleaning and taxis (like my own 87 year old mother) then I will pay for it rather than expect my adult children to run around after me.

I am sometimes envious of my Indian friend's family. They live in an extended family group and the grandparents did all the childcare, then they get looked after in their dotage. BUT BUT BUT it does rely on women doing the caring. I suppose it works in situations where there are numerous daughters/daughters-in-law who have always been in the home, but as soon as some families adopt a more "British" way of life then the children are not willing (or indeed able) to give up everything to be carers.

It's all very well saying that you'd go to Dignitas, or whatever, but if you ever develop dementia past a certain stage, God forbid, you will very likely a) not be able to understand or remember that there's anything wrong with you, and b) even if you had a plan for Dignitas, or had a stash of pills hidden away, you would almost certainly forget that you wanted or planned any such thing.

Has anyone read the book or seen the film called 'Still Alice'? It's a very interesting look at what living with dementia is like from that person's POV. So when the woman gets diagnosed she wants to end it all when things get to a certain point, but when she gets to that point (not recognising those around her, not knowing what day it is, where she lives, etc), she's too far gone to have any self-awareness any more and she's actually quite content.

GoldenEvilHoor , you are absolutely misinformed. You don't have to pay for parents to be in a home. They pay for it, out of savings/income/house sale, or if they have no assets, then the council will pay. And this is the question that flummoxes Solomon: people who have been prudent have to pay to be in exactly the same home with exactly the same care as someone who is having their care paid for by the council. (And before anyone pipes up money gives you choice, it doesn't always: only one home in the area would take mil because of her "noisy" dementia, and that was one that took allcomers.)

Irma this is largely true.

However it is changing as most women now also have full time jobs. In my family it's a case of caring in shifts according to when people are free.

I work from home and have flexible hours as does one of my other siblings so we could do the bulk of the caring. My other siblings are much better off and have high flying jobs so they would shoulder the financial burden if we needed someone to come to the house for specialist care or respite care.

It is easier when family members rally round. "It takes a village to raise a child" works at the other end of life too. It really does take a village to care for the elderly.

Money does mostly give you choice though. And there is a vast difference between a free council home and a more expensive one.

I can see how the Indian system works - the previous CEO of Pepsico was Indian and her parents moved into do the childcare - she said they would then care for their parents in old age.
My Mil was very clear to her daughter that she had raised her family and didn't wish to raise her daughter's and so she never helped with the grandkids and now mil expects her daughter to care for her - there's something wrong here.
And I see many GPs on here refuse to consider helping out with their grandchildren - are they expecting their kids to care for them in old age after enjoying a care free retirement, seems a bit bloody cheeky to me!

There are elderly people around here who go out as much as possible bent over on sticks, zimmers. Get a stair lift, walk in downstairs shower. Move to a small flat or bungalow near bus routes. Then there are the ones who gave up far too early and want others to be faffing around doing things that with a bit of effort could be still doing themselves. My parents are like the latter and we're told by many health professionals to carry on doing stuff every day. Basically use it or lose it. I am determined to be one of the former. Definitely not going to burden my dc or dh for that matter. We both watched Blood (channel 5 before Christmas) which led to a Frank conversation between the two of us.