Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Dh has asked me to find a job. I don’t want to

888 replies

moneyunsure · 12/01/2019 16:07

We have quite a lot of debt. Dh thinks that if I work we can clear the debt quicker. I think we just need to budget more.

I think that I’m better off at home looking after the dc (3 school age and a baby). Dh thinks I could manage working school hours but this would then mean we would have to pay for nursery and also I want to be at home with the baby and have anxiety so I don’t want to work.

I have argued that I can save us as much as I’d potentially earn by cutting out all luxuries and having an even smaller budget and just cutting back. So financially the outcome would be the same ??

OP posts:
snoutandab0ut · 13/01/2019 15:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StoorieHoose · 13/01/2019 15:48

I still can’t get over the regular haircuts and expensive skin csr

justasking111 · 13/01/2019 15:59

re: make up hair costs. Imagine a teenager in a womans body. We are dealing with a fifty year old version. Closets full of designer clothes, bags, but not a whit of common sense. You could scream but that does not help. What helps are baby steps. Get out of the house, find work that gives you confidence. See GP for adjustment of meds. We are trying to get our child/woman driving again. Do some voluntary work. Boost her own self esteem.

The breakdown was decades ago. You should have been helped then.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Oldbutstillgotit · 13/01/2019 16:03

What strength of Citralopam are you taking ? Have you seen a Clinical Psychologist? I found that really helpful a couple of years ago .
In a way I admire your honesty about not wanting to work but I do think you are incredibly selfish and self- absorbed and need to start thinking about your DH’s health rather than just your own . You mentioned he has a commute to work so am wondering how much that adds on to his day ? Sounds like he is nearing breaking point .

Graphista · 13/01/2019 16:15

The differences between this thread & the op's situation in the thread linked by reflectent:

ONE DC school aged v FOUR inc bf baby

Breadwinner doing all the housework and a lot of the tasks relating to the child AS WELL v this op doing all housework & childcare.

Short list but significant differences.

"It was me who posted that. The local care agencies can't get enough staff. No matter how many staff they train the council, the NHS and social services will refer more services users than they have the staff to cope with. Two of the people I trained with had never worked. One because she was a college leaver and the other because she had kids straight from uni. At least two applicants had moderate mental health issues." Not being able to find the RIGHT people to fill the roles doesn't mean there's not loads applying. I've also worked in elderly residential care, it's been a while but certainly even then we'd get loads of applications BUT from people without suitable experience/qualifications/aptitude. A lot of people seem to think it's a physically hard but intellectually/emotionally relatively easy job to do, which I'm sure if you work in the industry you will know is far from true!

Plus I feel you're being slightly disingenuous because you know the point I was making was that there are far more job seekers than jobs (even this govt doesn't deny that!)

"I tend to agree with the poster who said if OP is well enough to go and get her hair done and go toddler groups, she is well enough to work." Based on what?! To be honest that rather smacks of "I saw her smile therefore she can't REALLY be depressed"!!

I am (sometimes) well enough to go to a hobby group or hairdressers. But they are activities I can do or not do depending on my mh at that time period, even to the point of could do it one day but not another. Not being able to do them impacts nobody but me.

If I were working if I had days where I couldn't leave the flat (which even when I'm at my best are pretty regular) because of my mental health that would also affect my employer/clients and that would add to my stress to be honest. And there are VERY few employers who would be fine with "I can't come into work today, my stupid brain has me convinced I'll lock myself out even though my keys are in my hand and my dd has keys too" or "I'm going to be late because it's bin day and the bin men are early and I can't leave the flat while they're in my street"!!

Whereas my hobby group don't mind if I'm late, or don't go cos I'm having a bad day. My hairdresser (who is lovely) doesn't mind if I'm running a little late as long as I call her, or if I cancel (although that's rarely happened as I tend to book on the day - another reason I like her, I know then if I'm having a "good" day I can make the most of it in this way).

Sufferers of anxiety have their own "things" that are easy for them but would cripple another.

Eg I have OCD, that's the root of all my difficulties, so cleaning is actually a job I absolutely could not do because I struggle just even doing my own because of my issues dealing with anything that might be "contaminated" I certainly couldn't cope dealing with someone else's "germs". However, one thing I have never really had a problem with is public speaking. I even quite enjoy it. But for my dd - who has social anxiety - the public speaking is her idea of hell! But cleaning is something she would have no problem doing indeed we help each other out. She does cleaning jobs I find too anxiety inducing, not always but if I'm really bad and it needs doing. Equally if she needs an appointment made or some information obtained by telephone or (when I'm not housebound) face to face but with someone she doesn't know then I'll do that for her.

Everyone's anxiety and their triggers are different. An awful lot of those on this thread stating they also suffer from anxiety seem to have forgotten that.

I think op working for her mum is a good idea. It will increase income (which is the main issue everyone has been badgering her about!!), get her used to a routine of working, get her to build confidence that she can do a task she's being paid for to an acceptable standard for someone else (op you could have a chat with your mum re she must treat you like an employee on this score).

There's nothing wrong with baby steps. 20 years is a LONG time and even women without mh issues returning to work after that length of time find it nerve wracking!

BUT I do agree you need to after a certain period of time, maybe a few months, consider building up to cleaning for someone else too (no reason this can't also be a friend or relative), then to working as cleaner for someone you don't know or not as well.

Also kids get more expensive as they get older. Teens especially so I do think you need to accept that if at all possible you need to build up (slowly) to working full time. Doesn't need to be a highly skilled role.

Again, child minding would actually also be good for a paced return to full time work. During the set up phase you could clean for your mum, do the courses and prep, start off by taking on children from families you know & build from there. It's a role that largely matches your existing skill set, is self employed so the autonomy means you can plan your schedule to suit your needs (to a degree), has scope for (gradually) increasing/decreasing how much you do depending on your families needs.

I also really strongly feel you're not getting the right/enough treatment to deal with the mh issues. Unfortunately in the current climate patients who don't push for treatment generally don't get it. You SHOULD imo have a meds plan that is being reviewed regularly, have been seen by a psychiatrist at least once for a completed & thorough assessment and dx, have a cpn that is supporting you and seeing you on a regular basis, possibly a referral to your local psychology team for therapy.

Tbh I'm having a bit of a d'oh moment myself because it's just hit me op's been saying things like not liking going out, only referencing very local workplaces. I think it may be a medium level of agoraphobia.

People who don't have it think it means terrified to go out at all but actually as with all mh issues there are "levels" (there was a thread last year by an op married to someone who was, who would leave the house but only accompanied and only to places in walking distance).

Sometimes it's a "radius" - only walking distance, sometimes it's only to "safe" places eg only to school & supermarket, sometimes it's only to non busy places, sometimes (old boss of mine) it's pretty much anywhere building wise but only if door to door by car so outside for minimal amount of time, sometimes it's only at "safe" times eg not when it's raining or not on certain days of the week or dates (I've known a couple people who never leave their homes on the 13th - even if not on a Friday).

If that's the issue op there is treatment and support available.

I wrote that before I read

"No it affects everything. I struggle with going out I get overwhelmed and have panic attacks" which I think confirms its possible this is agoraphobia.

"I could be wrong of course, and having been medicated myself for years I'm aware of what anxiety/depression can do, but it's noticeable that through much of the thread OP's resisted any ideas about work - not just some, but all of them" have you had therapy too? I suspect not as you don't seem to have heard of "avoidant response"? It was sort of described upthread in the post about anxiety "shrinking" a sufferers world. OCD sufferers will be particularly familiar.

It basically enacts the "flight" part of the fear response but to a psychological threat rather than a physical one (although certainly with OCD it can feel like a physical threat sometimes - threat of illness/death)

Also "I'm aware of what anxiety/depression can do" you know what it does to you. You don't necessarily know the effect on others.

I think op's word choice has contrubuted to why this thread has gone the way it has right from the title!

It would actually be more accurate if she'd said "I'm scared to go back to work".

The phrase "comfort zone" is bandied about but for people like op and myself stepping outside our comfort zone is terrifying. The way I've explained it to some people in real life is to find out if they have a phobia and allegorise. Eg my best friend is a non swimming deep water phobic so I once explained it to her as me being asked to go outside on the same street as the bin men are collecting on is like her being asked to do one of those cliff jumps into a deep unknown body of water. Her response "fuck! Just the thought makes me feel panicky and sick!" So that and other similar discussions helped her "get it"

I've just noticed (and I'm just as guilty here) NOT ONE pp has asked the op exactly WHAT she's scared of, to break down the exact causes of the anxiety (and of course op doesn't have to answer).

"Why on earth wouldn’t someone want to improve on basic qualifications and skills."

Fear of what they would have to do to improve - going to unfamiliar places, dealing with strangers

Fear of failure - getting stuff wrong & being embarrassed, wasting time on a long course, wasting money

Fear of success (a favourite of my screwed up brain!) - fear of attention, fear of further expectations of being unable to "deliver", fear of feeling disappointed that it didn't feel as good as anticipated, fear that even though it's a success it could lead to a later negative experience (pass driving test, more likely to end up in or worse cause an accident), fear it will change you or change how people see you. Yep! Lovely little brain goblin that little bastard!!

BUT we have to keep working to squish the brain goblins, though I don't think op is getting the support to do this.

I agree too that op's husband has contributed to the situation albeit despite good intentions.

I'm very conscious of not doing that with dd (even though that's actually a parent - child relationship - man we're getting deep if we're into transactional analysis!!)

Yes I'll do things to help her out if she's having a bad day BUT if it's not a bad day she's just tempted to choose an easier route I'll encourage (not push) her to do difficult tasks. Eg I'll start a phone call where she needs info about something, explain to the person I've called and put them on speaker then when dd feels comfortable with them she takes over the call.

In light of my own experiences I don't want dd to end up suffering as badly as I do. She's also on AD's and is doing a confidence building course through work which she's finding really helpful.

LEMtheoriginal · 13/01/2019 16:16

This thread is a fucking disgrace!! I am stunned that the OP is being called a scrounger, lazy etc.

I have anxiety and couldn't work for about ten years. The pressure it put my dp under was horrendous. I tried to get work but my confidence meant that even if i got to interview i couldnt get a job. In the end i gave up. My self esteem was so low and i hated myself and what my not working was doing to my family.

People on here did exactly the same "get a job" etc . My mental health was fragile and ot made it so much worse, i had to come off mnet.

Im working now my dd is at secondary school and i love my job but childcare is a massive issue for us as we have zero family support.

Its not so simple as just getting a job. Anxiety is a debilitating illness and the people berating the OP should be ashamed of themselves. Would you be calling someone with a physical disability a scrounger?

Sav25 · 13/01/2019 16:17

Wow. I have the utmost empathy for those who struggle with mental health. Been there.

But you have been completely and utterly infantilised by your DH. You’re not his partner or his equal, you’re another child.

On these threads you read about some, quite frankly, impressive women. Having read this, it’s difficult not to come away with an image of the OP as completely pathetic.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 13/01/2019 16:20

Excellent post Lem.
You're right some of these comments are a absolute disgrace. Okay some people can work with anxiety, but others can't

Graphista · 13/01/2019 16:22

Really dismayed to see yet more "sticking fhe boot in" type posts, even from posters who's posts clearly indicate that on a cognitive level they've understood that op has SERIOUS mh issues (who are the LEAST likely to hit back and the MOST likely to internalise with possibly serious consequences) is truly shocking!

Op - whatever else, to have not responded to those posters who've displayed such an ASTOUNDING lack of compassion, understanding or empathy with anything but polite answers is truly admirable!

You have FAR more patience and understanding than I would have in your place. Credit to you for that.

Sav25 · 13/01/2019 16:28

Oh ffs. More infantilising. OP is in a serious situation, whereby her DH has expressed that he would like her to get a job. They are financially vulnerable and have four children to support. More mollycoddling and praising of the OP for even considering that could entertain the thought of taking on a job to help her family out and now back patting because she’s taken a step, albeit a small one, to not pretend none of this ever happened.

ImNotKitten · 13/01/2019 16:32

Excellent posts Graphista and LEM

Some of the posts on this thread are revolting. Such shocking prejudice towards what is clearly a mental health issue.

longtimelurkerhelen · 13/01/2019 16:35

Sav25

IT IS BIG STEP. If you have severe anxiety. Everyone saying to her you MUST, will only make her more anxious. Please try and have sympathy, it wont cost you anything. It is not on a whim, she has an illness, you wouldn't tell someone with a broken leg to "suck it up" Please educate yourself before commenting on something if you do not have a good understanding.

Frequency · 13/01/2019 16:39

And if OP's DH gets fed up and leaves her will the UC people accept her excuses (valid or not)?

No-one is helping OP by telling her that her anxiety is a get of jail free card. It's not. She has children who need providing for and her Dh has finally admitted he cannot do it all alone. She needs to step up to the plate.

If her anxiety is so bad she cannot even entertain the idea of leaving the house on a regular basis she needs to go to the GP and have her meds reviewed and put in a claim for ESA. However, as her DH who is the one who lives with her, sees her day to day and clearly loves the bones of her and has the patience of a saint, believes she is well enough to start thinking about working I would lean towards the idea that OP is well enough to start working and her anxiety is not bad enough that it is debilitating.

If the stress of managing the debt and being the sole provider pushes her DH to a breakdown then what happens? UC and HMRC will be a lot less understanding than the posters on here.

justasking111 · 13/01/2019 16:39

Sav25 Sun 13-Jan-19 16:28:25
Oh ffs. More infantilising. OP is in a serious situation, whereby her DH has expressed that he would like her to get a job. They are financially vulnerable and have four children to support. More mollycoddling and praising of the OP for even considering that could entertain the thought of taking on a job to help her family out and now back patting because she’s taken a step, albeit a small one, to not pretend none of this ever happened.............................

I see your point of view but the OP fell down this rabbit hole two decades ago. Her OH has enabled her, through love perhaps to stay there. Behind some helpless people you do find enablers sometimes.

I had a breakdown many years ago. Frightened to go out. OH took me out walked me around the shops as I hyperventilated and shook with terror. Time and again he did this. He could have said forget it, I will get the shopping take the kids to school. But he did not. He was part of my cure.

bananasandwicheseveryday · 13/01/2019 16:42

I feel sad for the mother's cleaner who is going to be sacked in order that the OP can do the job instead. Poor woman.

MitziK · 13/01/2019 16:43

Would you be calling someone with a physical disability a scrounger?

Not when the person with a physical disability is still hauling themselves out of bed and going to work every day because the bills still need to be paid, no.

snoutandab0ut · 13/01/2019 16:46

Get a grip of yourselves, seriously. I have complex mental health issues including anxiety, depression and OCD and have been hospitalised, attempted suicide, had the crisis team calling round to ensure I’m still alive, hallucinated due to extreme anxiety and much, much more. And yet I’ve always known that there is only one person responsible of taking care of myself - ME. Work is not an option. If someone with diabetes refused to take insulin and kept slipping into comas, we’d all tell them to take responsibility. People with MH need to do the same. We want it to be taken as seriously as physical illnesses, then we need to manage it in the same way as physical illnesses. I’m fully against people being signed off work for MH issues for longer than a few weeks at a time because of this exact reason - it fosters a mentality that we’re special snowflakes who get to opt out of the world rather than take responsibility to manage our conditions and our wellbeing to the point that we can function despite all of that. Of course there are external circumstances at play like difficulty accessing appropriate treatment through the NHS or it not being available, but this mentality of accepting that mental health is at its default a reason not to work, rather than thinking about how to overcome that, is so wrong. We need a complete overhaul of how it’s talked about and treated. Zero sympathy or compassion from me for people who don’t even attempt to help themselves

snoutandab0ut · 13/01/2019 16:46

Work is not optional, that should say

Figgygal · 13/01/2019 16:50

It's been blindingly obvious from the start you don't want to work what on earth would you do if your husband left you??

You need to sort out your anxiety. Can't leave house without panic attacks? How can you successfully socialise, parent your children or live your bloody life if you can't leave the house. You've been in a rut for 20 years so know nothing else but can you see how passionate people are about your posts and are shouting "Why are you so passive about all this"? It's no life

snoutandab0ut · 13/01/2019 16:50

Also there is a massive difference between MH and physical disabilities. Being blunt, if you have no legs, nothing will make them grow back. MH can be managed so it is possible to function relatively normally

Janedoe5000 · 13/01/2019 16:52

I'm only on page 2 of the thread but so far the OP wants her husband to work full time and feed him cheap shite. Can't wait to read the rest of the posts.

justasking111 · 13/01/2019 16:56

Figgy you are right when you say "Its no life" you miss out on so much.

Sav25 · 13/01/2019 17:11

I do have an understanding of mental health issues, dare I say more on a professional and personal level than I care to disclose.

OP has received a lot of sympathy from many different posters on here; now what? Sympathy does not put food on the table sadly, and in this situation, it’s ultimately what we’re talking about. Is it fair that OP suffers from ill mental health? No. But it is going to be down to her to address this so she has some sort of semblance of a life. Sadly no one else can do that for her.

Like others have said, if OP is so debilitated that she is unable to face leaving the house or facing people, her mental health is significantly impacting on her life and the life of her DH and DC. She needs to take steps to address this; and I am no illusion that mental health provisions are easy and quick to access.

We can discuss this until the cows come home but what it all comes down to is this - the OP and her DH have four children whom they have responsibility for. They are in debt, her DH is unable to bear the brunt of financially providing for the entire family and if things are not planned for, their situation will almost certainly get worse. We are grown women - let’s get fucking real.

Graphista · 13/01/2019 17:11

"And if OP's DH gets fed up and leaves her will the UC people accept her excuses (valid or not)?"

Jesus! They're NOT excuses she has an ILLNESS it is just as valid a reason to not work and if necessary claim benefits as if she had a debilitating physical condition.

I have severe OCD, anxiety, depression & related agoraphobia. I'm on ESA currently (and dreading the switch to UC because it IS being handled very badly when the claimant has a mental illness - which doesn't make that acceptable in any way!) because it does affect my every waking moment hell it even affects my dreams! I'm on anti-depressants (have lost count of how many I've "tried" others I've been on have either stopped working or made me very ill in some way including physical effects to the point my mum thought I'd had a stroke!) have diazepam to take if it's a very bad day, see a cpn regularly, have had therapy, I've even seriously considered hypnotherapy (but been advised it generally doesn't work and could make things even worse) I'm barely avoiding hospitalisation.

Is that allowed?!

Or am I a lazy, pathetic, workshy, selfish, self absorbed, infantilised, immature scrounger too?

The bullying & prejudice on this thread is utterly shocking!

"No-one is helping OP by telling her that her anxiety is a get of jail free card." NOBODY has even come CLOSE to saying that.

"Not when the person with a physical disability is still hauling themselves out of bed and going to work every day because the bills still need to be paid, no." Wow! So you would call them a scrounger too if they weren't working? Wtf!

"Being blunt, if you have no legs, nothing will make them grow back. MH can be managed so it is possible to function relatively normally" I seriously doubt your knowledge.

Are you even aware that some mh conditions have a neurobiological component? That means there is possibly a physical malformation or trauma that's contributed to it? These cannot be "managed" schizophrenia, like OCD also has a genetic component. Please do tell me how a patient "manages" an illness out of their DNA! Head injuries can also be a factor, so can "physical" ailments, imo there's a hidden scandal in the uk of misdx patients who are dx with mh conditions when actually it's a physical illness

Eg

www.nhs.uk/conditions/overactive-thyroid-hyperthyroidism/symptoms/

Look at the very top of that list of symptoms.

Yet thyroid disease is MASSIVELY underdx in the uk (and it's not the only one!)

My own Cmht have started a programmed of blood tests for new referrals and long term patients for whom treatment isn't working as well as hoped. My cpn was telling me they've found about 1/3 of patients ACTUALLY had an underlying physical cause for their symptoms, which once they started getting the correct treatment for that their symptoms massively improved.

And even aside from all that why on earth is mental illness less deserving of sympathy, support and understanding than a physical illness?

I'm also physically disabled. That's far less distressing than the mental illness.

Janedoe5000 · 13/01/2019 17:21

I love the responses along the lines of: "you shouldn't have to work if you say you can't because if anxiety."

Is that all it takes? Just say I've got anxiety and then I can opt out of all the difficult things? What if everyone did that?