Son, DIL, money (mine)

[OhdratNC]

I think I might just need to suck this up but would appreciate advice.
DS was made redundant from nightmare corporate job a year ago and is now self-employed so a big drop in income but also a big drop in stress levels. Two DCs aged 11 & 7. DIL is devoted to DCs, has never had a job and doesn't want to work. I'm retired but have a good pension & some savings. I offered to subsidise the household while DS builds up his business but also asked if DIL might get a P/T job so that she could contribute to the shortfall. Suggestion didn't go down well (their relationship isn't great). Some occasional small contributions have been forthcoming but essentially I am transferring 50% of my income each month. I can manage this but it means that I either delay work needed on my house or use my savings. DS is anxious about it too but doesn't know how to get DIL to see that this is unfair. She finds change distressing and tends to be very stubborn and self-centred when she feels cornered, as she probably does in this situation.

OP You are over kind.

Is anyone else contributing to this couple's life choices? What about DS's father? DiL's mother and father?

I don't see why it should just be you.
I don't see how that can be all that eco-friendly if they have a dishwasher. Surely it would be much more eco-friendly to wash dishes by hand?
If you have any other children will you be giving them the same amount of money?
This is all so wrong
Judging from the age of the children presumably the couple are about 30 years of age and here they are living on money from the DM/MiL

How do you suggest they they downsize quickly? Any idea what the housing market's like at the moment?

It sounds like your DIL is resentful that your DS gave up his high paying but stressful career to start a business after he had been made redundant. Do you think she feels that because it was his choice, then it is up to him (and you by extension) to sort the finances because she isn't changing?

I'm no legal expert, but it might be worth checking that you are not inadvertently setting a precedent for the lifestyle level she should expect should the marriage not last.

Will speak to my son next week and begin to cut back on the payments.

Does your DiL actually know that 50% of your income is going to DS?

As in have you/she actually discussed this or have all your discussions been with DS?

Yes, (that's in reference to the housing market) and they've already wasted a year. They'd probably need to rent with a guarantor (I bet that's mum again) as getting a mortgage with only a year's worth of books for self-employment would be tricky, depending on how much equity they have in their current property. Or rent a smaller property and rent theirs out instead if the mortgage company will let them.

It's not coming across that they've tried to fix their own problems, just run to the bank of mum here. Bit more proactivity is needed and not just the DIL looking for work!

I don't disagree with you MrsMuddle. In this scenario I'm just sending that OP is too biased towards her son to see that this situation began with his change in circumstances and his willingness to take OP's money. She has implied the DIL is lazy but we don't know what problems exist in the marriage for the DIL to take that stance. It seems to me the son goes running to his mummy to discuss important issues that should be discussed and decided between husband and wife. She may be against taking the money but has no control over it because it's been arranged between mother and son.

MrDarcy marriage is not an institution in which you can insist that one person brings home all the money, or any money at all. And that cuts both ways. OPs ds is a fool if he works himself into an early grave because his wife sees him as a meal ticket.

And no, if they separate there is no clear expectation that she stay in the house at all unless she can pay the mortgage.

On a completely seperatenot you need to be wary of tax / depriving yourself of assets issues

grandparents can give money, I believe to grandchildren in the form of gifts, such as paying for music lessons / private school fees, these sorts of things. But it has to be out of spare cash - they must not be seen to have a drop in lifestyle in order to accommodate that.

You might find that by gifting this money directly to your son, that you are in breech of HMRC law and he should be declaring / paying tax on it.

There is also the issue that you could be seen as depriving yourself of assets / cash in order to reduce your liability should you need care in the future. Heres hoping that this is a long way off, but you do not know what the future holds.

OP you have created two financial monsters, they will bleed you dry given the opportunity.

OP

The other thing, it might be worth pointing out is if they receive any type of benefit that is income related and are not declaring what you are giving them, then the benefit office might assume its undeclared income from cash in hand (especially if your son is self employed.)

I am not sure how it would work on that score, but its certainly something for them to think about

Just because she was a SAHM when the children were younger, should not mean that the situation can never be re-evaluated.

Regardless of any history, OP needs to stop financing this couple. They need to work out which of them finds a job. If the son is currently self employed, he could take on the childcare to allow the DIL to get a full time job. Or he could find a lower paid than previously job and build his business in parallel, while she finds a PT role. This is up to them to work out. The only bit the OP can or should influence is stopping bankrolling them.

If their marriage is crumbling for whatever reason, then having it financially propped up is only delaying the inevitable.

MrDarcy that's a ridiculous way to think. Your spouse's health has to be important too. This MIL is not insisting the DIL get a full time job, only a part-time job so is recognising the need to stay home with kids.

OP I think given they are taking your money they've unfortunately invited an opinion on themselves. I'd meet with both of them so it's her stress too, not just your sons.

Brass brass, why are you suggesting the son calls his mother, Mummy?are you using it as a term of abuse because he is male? There was a thread recently on the Feminist Board about terms of abuse for men and someone tried to suggest there are not specific ones. I think you have proved that some posters use Mummy as a term of abuse for men.
I think the OP has been unbelievably generous to the family.

@MrDarcyWillBeMine

Outrageous and unbelievably entitled. The DIL is a pathetic mother who refuses to support not only herself but also her dependent children.

However, it could (and would, should they divorce) be argued that your DIL never worked or intended to work. It sounds like she is being very upfront about what she wants from life and for over 11 years that has been fine! To now says ‘well things have changed’ isn’t really your DIL’s issue is it?

Of course it's DIL's issue! Or should be if she wants the same roof over her head...

I'm more with Brassbrass on this. I don't think your expectation of your DiL working because you are subsidising them is reasonable. Your DiL didn't agree to it. She is in a vulnerable financial situation and might be wise to consider developing a career, but that's a bit different from giving up her desired lifestyle to picking up some part time hours so her DH can continue to follow his dream - leaving her still financially vulnerable and pushing her our of the lifestyle she has been developing.

If it were her and her DH who looked at what they have available and said - OK we can't afford to be this financially insecure or push one of us to the brink at work, we need to make changes - then looked at how they could both develop careers they'd be happy in that would support their lifestyle, that would be fair. But DH just throwing his hands in the air about corporate work, insisting on starting his own business and relying on you nad DiL to compromise so he can pursue his dream is only reasonable if you all agree and DiL does not.

You're subsidising your son's lifestyle choice. If you want to keep doing that then do so. If you don't then stop (suddenly would be a bit unfair given that you offered, but it's your money). Don't make your giving contingent on DiL doing what you want when it's your son you are trying to help.

SAHM here. But it’s very much a joint decision....and money’s no issue. Would I allow my MIL to finance my family while I wasn’t working? No way.

As others have said, this is not your problem. They have made lifestyle choices - as a family - which they can no longer afford. If he wants to work for himself at the level of income he has, then she needs to work too. Or he needs to go back to a better paying job. Simply ridiculous for you to be permanently subsidising them.

I'm actually laughing at the idea of the DIL takes on all 'housewifey duties' she would have time for a PT job.

I (and other LP) manage Fat jobs and raising kids and working. It's kinda a must if you want to run a household.

Not wanting to and not being able to are different. Atm she doesn't have to because they have OP income but she needs to so the wanting is irrelevant.

As long as duties are split according to WOH load it's fine.

I’m shocked that you’re subsidising your Son and DIL with 50% of your income, at this stage of your own life OP, truly shocked, and saddened for you but really I’m disgusted at them both.

dil taking the piss reduce the payments, she needs to get a job and offer to help with child care .Plenty of parents would love not too work so much and have time with the kids but putting a roof over there heads is your first priority .

Sorry but your DIL is a lazy, cheeky cow. She doesn't need to be home all day when the kids are at school. Stop being a doormat and tell her to get a job.

She gets a job, or your DS goes back to a corporate better-paid role. Her choice. His choice. They are taking the absolute mick here and should be ashamed of themselves.

Could you offer some childcare? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on then.

Bear in mind most small businesses fail within a year, OP. Your son would be far better off getting a job.

Of course DIL is going to get a job when OP is funding their lifestyle.

OP you need to stop this now. If DS and DIL will be in financial difficulty without your money then they are living beyond their means and need to sort their priorities.

DS needs to accept his business isn't working, DIL needs to get a job, they need to downsize and they need to stop spending money they don't have. You say they live frugally but if they've previously had credit card debts then they have history of over spending.

MrsMuddle he seems infantilised/immature to me hence mummy came to mind. In my relationship financial status is a very private matter and not discussed with anyone other than each other, not even parents. That's not to say we lie so if we were experiencing difficulties we might say it's a bit tough at the moment but we would never go into details or mortgage payments etc.

And MN has a habit of jumping on certain words to detail threads. The DIL has been called a lazy bitch amongst other things. What does the feminist board have to say about that?

Your DiL didn't agree to it. She is in a vulnerable financial situation and might be wise to consider developing a career, but that's a bit different from giving up her desired lifestyle to picking up some part time hours so her DH can continue to follow his dream - leaving her still financially vulnerable and pushing her our of the lifestyle she has been developing.

DIL agreed to being funded by the OP.

The alternative is for DIL not to accept funding from OP and to get a job.

DIL can no longer continue in the lifestyle she’s ‘developed’ and it’s currently being bankrolled by another adult.