Son, DIL, money (mine)

[OhdratNC]

I think I might just need to suck this up but would appreciate advice.
DS was made redundant from nightmare corporate job a year ago and is now self-employed so a big drop in income but also a big drop in stress levels. Two DCs aged 11 & 7. DIL is devoted to DCs, has never had a job and doesn't want to work. I'm retired but have a good pension & some savings. I offered to subsidise the household while DS builds up his business but also asked if DIL might get a P/T job so that she could contribute to the shortfall. Suggestion didn't go down well (their relationship isn't great). Some occasional small contributions have been forthcoming but essentially I am transferring 50% of my income each month. I can manage this but it means that I either delay work needed on my house or use my savings. DS is anxious about it too but doesn't know how to get DIL to see that this is unfair. She finds change distressing and tends to be very stubborn and self-centred when she feels cornered, as she probably does in this situation.

I do wonder if the posters who think not being able to cover the mortgage and no income are even close to synonyms are of an elder generation who faced significantly lower housing costs and are unaware of how much modern mortgages can be (easily into 4 figures and quite often more than a full time minimum wage job). It could quite well be the case that his business is bringing in the same amount of money per hour as he would be able to make in a job that wasn't detrimental to his health.

This is outrageous!

I know someone aged 30 who happily takes the majority of her mother’s income every month because she doesn’t want to work. She is a nasty, manipulative person who would describe herself as devoted to her kids, when she is in fact devoted to herself.

You definitely need to bow out of the situation financially. Their relationship dynamics and family finances are none of your business. I’m not sure who I find more outrageous actually, your son or your DIL!

Another point, your son is not making a living from his business is he. If it was growing then your contribution should naturally have reduced over time. I’m sure it’s lovely for him living his dream or whatever blah blah blah but realistically he can only do this because you’re enabling/bankrolling him. In this respect he is no different to your DIL imo. He needs to go and get a job that actually supports his family right now, especially if he is happy for his wife not to work. If he wants to indulge his self employment, his wife needs to get a job that supports the family while it builds up.

I think if she hated her DIL she wouldn't be paying her bills!

Your DIL sounds like my SIL - she'd rather paint over stuff than clean it....

You’re enabling your DIL to stay home at your expense. You should be prioritising your own pension/home before letting her continue as a SAHM to fairly old kids.

Obviously it’s different if your grandchildren urgently need new clothes/food/trips etc. But I’d be expecting DIL to get off her arse before the family turns to you for financial help

Glad to see you’re going to stop giving them money. You shouldn’t be gifting it to them if you can’t be nice about it.

Your DIL’s employment or lack thereof is nothing to do with you. When your son decided to start his own business he should have done so in consultation with his wife and discussed whether she would start working outside the home then. As many other people have pointed out, she will be working for minimum wage if she can even find a job with suitable hours.

As your son was in a ‘nightmare corporate’ job previously and is now setting up a new business I doubt he has had very much time to devote to childcare or running the household. Your DIL is clearly doing the majority of the housework and childcare even if you prefer not to acknowledge this.

It's time to stop giving them money, as almost everyone else has said. You've kept their household going for a year, which is amazing, and above and beyond what most parents would want to do/be able to do.

You are now talking about giving them money from your savings, or delaying work on the upkeep to your property, both of which are going to be to your detriment long term.

They must have had conversations about what they will do when your support ends. They have options - either your DS can get a job in addition to or instead of being self employed, although if his business is growing then this may not be the best idea. Your DIL could work, presuming no disabilities or chronic illnesses that would prevent this. They could move to a smaller property - do they rent or do they have a mortgage? Either way they could look at what they could save by downsizing. They can look at what benefits they would be entitled to. If your DS is not earning a substantial amount they may be entitled to some.

This is their problem to solve, and you have been extremely generous to help them out, but you are no enabling the situation, and it's never going to change unless you put a stop to it. Send them an email /message (better in writing) today, or as soon as possible, and outline how you are simply unable to continue to provide them with an income, and will be withdrawing it. As PPs have mentioned you could cut it by 50% next month, 25% the month after, to give them a little time.

Don't be hard on the DIL. She may lack confidence rather than being a 'lazy bitch'. However she is jointly responsible for providing for her dcs morning not her MIL. Continuing to fund them is not helpful.

they must be able to claim Child Tax credits and Child Benefit ?

But is the dil only allowed to get a job that fits in perfectly with school hours and makes no demands of her dh, or can she go out and look for any full time job that interests her?

Ah but you forget she doesn't actually get a say. She should just be a TA or dinner lady or work in Macdonald's. Anything really so long as it fits in with her DH and his choice of work. Whether any of those roles are suitable or realistic is of no consequence. She exists to facilitate him.

Lets hope that while DIL is sitting on her arse all day doing nothing that she's reading this post on mumsnet.
Has she approached her own family for support if she refuses to work I wonder?

Ah but you forget she doesn't actually get a say

Yes, she too has to support thr son.

And maybe there is more to this. Maybe she knows full well this business isn't working, and it probably never will. And her refusal to get a job is a way to drive him to stop fucking about.

Because if she's not worked for a long time, then the amount she can earn will be limited. He will be rhe one with the potential. I suspect there is way more to this than the op knows or her son is telling her.

Stop giving them money then.

I can't beleive your DiL accepts your moneyand still won't try and work!!!

When your son decided to start his own business he should have done so in consultation with his wife and discussed whether she would start working outside the home then

I suspect this never happened or if it did they were in disagreement and OP stepped in before an amicable resolution was reached cornering the DIL two against one.

OP, don’t deplete your savings any further. When you need assistance at some point in the future it sounds very unlikely that your DS and his DW will be selflessly looking after you.

Your plan is sensible. Use a six month exit strategy and get it in place ASAP.

There is the truth and then there is the truth......

Another one who thinks your subsidy needs to stop but there are some pretty ridiculous suggestions coming out here.

It's a well known fact that it takes a new business around two years to break even, let alone make any money. It's too soon to tell if your son's business will be successful.

Downsizing is a lot easier said than done right now as anyone trying to sell a house will attest. It's not a quick fix and it costs money.

Frankly I'm astonished at the defence of a woman who's too lazy to get off her arse and get the hoover out. She could easily get a job, supermarkets are always looking for shelf stackers.

Good luck, OP, this ain't gonna be easy.

It’s ridiculous how so many woman consider that they don’t need to work as they have had children , just had my 4th and I will be returning as I do t have an option not too, it’s hard for families to survive on one wage these days but there seems to be a cult of people who feel entitled to ‘ raise their kids’ with no concern to where the funds to do that comes from .

The ability of some posters to twist a few scant facts to suit their pet narrative never ceases to amaze me.

There is the truth and then there is the truth......

Exactly.

You’ve done your son and DIL absolutely no favours by bankrolling them. You’ve merely infantilised two adults and allowed them to continue sticking their heads in the sand. Their financial set up is not your concern, and never should have been. Thankfully you’ve realised your mistake now.

someone suggested that if my DIL took on 'wifely/housewifely' duties and all the childcare then she wouldn't have time for a PT job.

But what does she actually do all day whilst the kids are in school?

I do know someone who was SAHM for years and then after her husband was made redundant and took a lower paying job, whilst looking for other work, things were tight, she cleaned in the day and did bar work at night- basically anything to make ends meet. I find it odd that your DIL in their position wouldn’t be looking for any work possible. You didn’t spend all your time working so she could be a lady of leisure. I’m glad you are looking to reduce payments with a view to stopping.

Why brassbrass, should she exist to facilitate him? I am sure no one would agree with that view on MN but she should act like an adult and contribute to family income even if it is not much. There is no human right for either men or women that excuses them from paying their way. Also, working is good for taking yourself away from your problems and giving you a fresh perspective.It is good for mental health and self esteem. It also sets a good example to children about solving your own problems and not waiting for grown ups to bail you out.

I hope this is a wind-up.

You've got the OP who clearly doesn't think her DIL supports her (OP's) son in the way she should. So the OP very generously gives up half her salary each month so her son can do what she (OP) thinks is best for him.

The son doesn't come out of this well, OP, tbh. He can't just keep taking your money because he can't sort his own marriage out. If his business does not have the scope to bring in the same as his previous role then they need to downsize. Quickly. It's not going to get any easier with time and he's burying his head in the sand. It's up to him to sort things out with his wife, not you.

What 'small contributions' have been forthcoming, then?

Why is the focus just on the DIL not working - your son wants to start his own business and has a big drop in income and stress levels as well. They need to sort this as a couple and make compromises as clearly they both need to make changes to have enough money

Yes indeed. If the job was corporate, big money, high stress the DiL has been facilitating that through their marriage by being the corporate wife (actively or passively). That is a job but unfortunately not one which employers recognise for future work.

Circumstances changed and she needs to find work but being realistic part time flexible work with no relevant experience is going to pay peanuts even if its available.

DS needs to get a proper job - its a year now, he has spent his pay-off on prepping for a new business which still doesn't support them. He needs to either get a regular job or subcontract in something similar to his previous type of work which removes most of the corporate stress.

They may also need to downsize.

I agree with Bluntness assessment - she may well be making a point because his business is never going to bring in the money.

We are also only getting one side of the situation - what is this business which has had so much time and resources put into it to date?

Oh and obviously beyond maybe an emergency transition the OP should not be subsidising them.

OP you sound just like my mother - overly eager to help because you’re a lovely person who cares about your child!

I understand that!

However, it could (and would, should they divorce) be argued that your DIL never worked or intended to work. It sounds like she is being very upfront about what she wants from life and for over 11 years that has been fine! To now says ‘well things have changed’ isn’t really your DIL’s issue is it?

Things have changed because your son has taken a huge pay cut (not DIL’s fault) and can’t pay the bills he committed to (I’m guessing DIL wasn’t taken into account on mortgage if not earning).

So other than a sense of moral responsibility I don’t see that your DIL is to blame or should go out and work!

If your son left her she would no doubt remain in the house with the children with a mortgage/bills that still needed paying and you would probably have your son living back with you! So not sure that’s an ideal situation either!

You say they’ve been living very frugally so it doesn’t sound like DIL is money grabbing or a total nightmare she’s just lazy and set in her ways- DS knew this and has (until now) facilitated it!

Reading what you’ve said I would say that DS needs to stop ‘chasing a dream’ when he knows that his wife (rightly or wrongly) and two children depend on him to pay the bills!

🤔 it doesn’t much matter if he’s overly stressed, he’s signed up to this life/debts and needs to meet them! I think you know this deep down (which is why you’re subsidising them) but obviously want your son to be happy!

DP has a high salary (well insured too) and I work an average full time job! A condition of me having children (he really wants them) is that I can be at home until they go to school. In fairness I will then go back to my career part time and eventually full time- but it’ll still be 5-7 years of me being at home!

If DP turned around during that time and decided to cut his salary in half by becoming self employed I’d be LIVID!! And certainly wouldn’t be going back to work as he would, in my opinion, have mislead me into having children and reneged on our agreement!

I’m a very supportive and loving partner but I can’t stand when one person just changes things without consultation! It would be the same as me saying ‘I’ll go back to work post baby’ then changing my mind and demanding to stay home - that wouldn’t be fair either!

Your DS has pulled the rug out from under their established lives xx