Son, DIL, money (mine)

[OhdratNC]

I think I might just need to suck this up but would appreciate advice.
DS was made redundant from nightmare corporate job a year ago and is now self-employed so a big drop in income but also a big drop in stress levels. Two DCs aged 11 & 7. DIL is devoted to DCs, has never had a job and doesn't want to work. I'm retired but have a good pension & some savings. I offered to subsidise the household while DS builds up his business but also asked if DIL might get a P/T job so that she could contribute to the shortfall. Suggestion didn't go down well (their relationship isn't great). Some occasional small contributions have been forthcoming but essentially I am transferring 50% of my income each month. I can manage this but it means that I either delay work needed on my house or use my savings. DS is anxious about it too but doesn't know how to get DIL to see that this is unfair. She finds change distressing and tends to be very stubborn and self-centred when she feels cornered, as she probably does in this situation.

Thank you.

Sorry, that was @WTFIsAGleepglorp

I agree with the majority. She needs to grow up and get a job.

I would really hate to be in dil situation with my mil giving us money and then making decisions about how I should live my life. Stop giving them money and let them sort themselves out, they should be fine. If DS had a corporate job he will have got a redundancy payout unless he joined in the last 2 yrs. If he is building up a serious business ( as opposed to fiddling round trying to make money out of his hobby or something) he should also be able to get some financing- small business loan, grant etc. Maybe they could trim back their outgoings as bit. Other people do this without having their mum bankroll them.

Hope the chat about future payments goes ok, OP.

I would suggest you warn them that you are going to stop, or at least half, the money you are contributing in a couple of months time. That way DIL gets time to sort herself out with a job and knowing that you will soon be able to sort out the issues with your house should reduce your stress levels. You won't be being unfair either, it's them that are being unfair by allowing you to subsidise them. They are adults for goodness sake!

Hello,
I am thinking of course stop giving the money but also thought that you actually gave the money to support your son and not their family. Conditions aren’t bad necessarly but should be stated from the beginning and of course agreed by all parts so here your son and DIL.
I don’t think ever giving money bring anyone into a position to ask something from the dependant. If you aren’t happy, then you need to stop.

While my dh was setting up his business I had 2 jobs , it's been going a while but I still do some hours in my second job. I'm sorry you just have to let them sort it out , I would never expect my parents or my husbands parents to pay. My parents give me their time by looking after my daughter, they wouldn't accept a penny. However I do pay my dads petrol and treat them when they let me. What they do for us is invaluable like making us a meal when we've come in late.
I couldn't wound not take a penny off them,I couldn't use their savings.

Would there not be benefits available to subsidise a newly self employed person rather than needing his mum to do it.

Haahaaa! Haahaaa! So many people still think the state provides generous benefits for anything. No, there's no benefits to subsidise someone's lifestyle choice to be self-employed. There's Universal Credit, takes forever to get, usually ballsed up and if your business doesn't start making enough money for you to live on the state expects you to get more paid work elsewhere.

It's not all your DIL's fault, OP, but she's easier to blame.

At any rate, you need to tell them the gravy train is reaching its final destination, start scaling back the top ups and give them a time frame when the top ups will ceases and then walk the walk.

Stop stop stop!!
You DIL can get a part time job! Is this woman not embarrassed to be taking handouts from you? Maybe if the funds were coming from her parents it would be a different story?
Please Stop!

DIL needs to get a job!! Why should you be giving them your money?

It’s a little unfair to offer to help then moan about it.

You seem to be sneering at DIL a bit when she was probably always this way inclined.

I would suggest you give them three months notice and withdraw the offer of help, but stay out of the marriage.

It’s maybe harsh to question your motives OP, but most of us wouldn’t be happy to support their child beyond uni years, let alone complain when DIL is not jumping to your conditions.

OP and her DS think that equity exists because he does all the DIY (how many hours per day/week) AND loads and unloads the washing machine and dishwasher.

Wow. Does he even know more is involved? Especially with a 7 and 11 year old?

So we can assume that all that DIL does is not valued because she is not paid for all the day to day stuff that she does? Did DS step up when the DC were babies? He shared childcare when he got home? What time was this in his corporate career? Were the DC already in bed or ready for bed (after a 12hour + shift). What about now that he is stress free - does he do pick up, after school activities, spellings, times tables, homework etc. Then there is tea and bath time and the bedtime routine.

Would he be willing to do this whilst his wife was at work - earning money, talking to adults, building pension entitlement, having a life outside the home, maybe even making friends? And do all the stuff she was no longer available to do - or pay a housekeeper/nanny? Except he would need a salary if he were to pay for services DIL does for 'free'.

And if she is going to work outside the home and any previous agreement is defunct than she is just as entitled as he is to retrain and invest in her career and work full time if it suits her. Maybe do an unpaid internship and rely on parents to help out - parents who then slag her husband off and claim he is EA and should do all the day to day stuff plus shelf stack to support her dreams.

It really pisses me off that unpaid labour (usually performed by women) is not only not recognised but excites such vitriol from other women. It would not be acceptable for men to call a woman employed in the home as a 'lazy bitch' or insist that they had to jump through hoops set by society or PIL to prove that they weren't 'lazy bitches'.

Posters above - who hurt you? Was it those nasty SAHMs or are you a victim of government policy?

Toxic parents make hay with this. I was studying for a PhD when DH asked his parents for a loan (to be repaid) for our son's SEN tribunal. Of course it was my fault DS had SN. His DF tried to make it conditional on my giving up my doctorate to shelf stack to show willing even though it made no sense.

I'm now a full time carer following the breakdown of my son's ss placement, or as he would see it, lazy bitch.

When my mother was dying and we were struggling to pay additional travel and accommodation costs over 3 months when we lived 300 miles away and asked for a week loan of £100 DHs dad said 'no' basically because she was old and she was going to die anyway and so we didn't need to be there. Plus this was my due punishment for not having worked outside the home.

His misogynistic views flew under the radar. MIL has dementia and SS have finally intervened to get her away from PIL and have placed her in a residential home. He still talks about 'shifting' her if he decides to sell and move.

I despair that hateful, toxic actions (not to mention misogynistic views) are given moral currency.

I'm the only person bringing in money in my house with 1 child and a man child to look after I work 16 hours bringing in 125pw and I get a monthly universal credit payment of 400 each month as as wall as £20 per child Benefit if I can manage on what I have I'm pretty sure they can make cutbacks and live off what they have the are probably spending money in luxurious because they know you'll cover the short fall xx

@youngmammy how much is your mortgage?

A SAHP is unemployed by the government's definition as they're economically inactive.

I know I'm a day late nitpicking, but a SAHP is not necessarily unemployed. Also, unemployed and economically inactive are not the same things.

To be unemployed you must (a) not have a job and (b) want/need one. The second part does not necessarily apply to SAHP, so they are not all unemployed.

The government definition of unemployed is available and looking for work. I'd make the definition a little wider, if a person doesn't have a job and they or anyone funding their life thinks they should have one, I'd call them unemployed. But a SAHP whose spouse is able and willing to fund them is not unemployed. Neither is a retired person with sufficient pension income, nor is a lottery winner living off savings, and so on.

Just tell her get a job and contribute or sod off.

it could take forever to build his buisiness up are you going to continue nope he could get a p/time job around his business for the shortfall its not easy being self employed i know but he has to pay any outgoings he has to pay before he turns a profit they cant live on nothing. have a word with youre son whilst you will support him any other way but cant carry on doing so financially. they will never learn to stand on their own two feet if you keep giving them money. also suggest counselling for their relationship. or a big kick in the pants for dil.

I think the posters are being a bit harsh. Whether DIL gets a job or not is none of any of your business, nor that of the OP.

The offer to help out financially was volunteered, not demanded, by the sounds of it.

You can't donate money as a means of taking control of another family's life decisions. A gift is a gift. Perhaps they should have refused it.

If it's causing resentment, give them adequate warning and cease. But don't get involved in their family politics, that's a recipe for disaster. No-one ever welcomes advice like that. OP could be risking a massive family rift while trying to be generous and do something nice.

If DIL is and has always taken care of both kids and all the domestic side (cooking/cleaning), why is it automatically her place to get a job when circumstances change? It's between her and DS, nothing to do with anyone else and a bunch of strangers on the internet.

One thing I would ask myself is how realistic DS’s plans to open his business are... you sound like someone who would be able to grasp the basics of any business plan and make a judgement on whether your ‘investment’ makes sense or is simply allowing him not to go back to the corporate world, or confront problems that might have led to him being made redundant (if that’s the case!)... not sure if he’s been building it for one year or much less, but you can also make a judgement on how much effort he’s putting in and how good and passionate he seems to be. I wonder if DIL doesn’t want to get a job also because she might feel that’s not the right path for him (?). That would be my main concern, not ideas about independence etc. That your money is enabling someone who might not be up for the task. I wouldn’t think my DH would be suitable to have his own company for example. Another option is that DIL worked with him in this business. Could he do with some help? Even you could help him (?). I come from a family where there was always an implied offer of help that came with an assumption of interference. Not that I ever needed it... So I don’t see anything wrong with you helping them, but they can’t have the best of both worlds - half the money and no interference. You sound like an amazing MIL! Lucky them!

Unfortunately not all businesses make it to a profitable stage. I've a small business which 3 years in is just starting to make a small profit.Meanwhile I work full time in a day job. The longer you give this money to them the more difficult it'll be for them to do without it. Cut the contributions out at the end of the financial year.

For DIL to get a job might mean that her husband is willing and able to be the primary carer. Is he?

For DIL to 'sod off', her husband would need to be a lone parent or support his ex to be a lone parent.

You get to decide what you do. If you don't want to subsidise some adults living a lifestyle that they can't afford, then don't do it.

They get to decide what they do. They can choose to reduce their expenditure or either one of them might choose to get some more income by getting a job. They can decide between themselves what to do.

You don't get to buy a say in their decisions by giving them money.

It can also be quite difficult for someone who's been out of the workforce that long to even secure a PT job.

The threads on here from OP's married to these 'self-employed' people whose business is nothing more than a glorified hobby rather than a means of living and the self-employed person expects to be paid for by everyone else and uses this all-encompassing job to skive out of lifework are legion.

Hope your chat with him goes well.

If DS had a corporate job he will have got a redundancy payout unless he joined in the last 2 yrs

OP says he had a redundancy payout, he’s spent it all on the business. Which might explain why his DW is reluctant to go back to work - how much more money is he going to piss away?