Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

That assumes you have goals though. Why do some people have goals and others don't?

Who doesn't have goals?

I may be very naive in this respect, but I don't think I've ever met anyone who didn't have goals. I wholeheartedly agree that not everyone does anything to achieve them; but I think the vast, vast majority of people will have them.

anchor I’d say the vast majority of people I grew up with have no goals.

Likewise most people who live near my parents - they think I’m some kind of glamourous go getter because I go down to London sometimes.

"Don't put yourself down. The fact that you are self reflecting and trying to find out how to be successful is a good start. "

But I'm not starting out. I'm over 40 and have been thinking about this for decades.

"Try and find ways of getting constructive feedback. Are there some people in your life who are able to tell you straight about your strengths and weaknesses?"

My friends don't know me at work and I couldn't ask a colleague.
I went through a phase about 15 years ago of talking about jobs and work all the time. As well as driving people mad, I also realised I wouldn't get any answers from people I knew socially. If I asked some of them why I wasn't successful they'd say things like 'you don't have specialist skills' which is true, but doesn't help with the personality aspect. For people who were a bit more open minded, I did get 'you're not confident enough' but I think that when people saw I was well and truly stuck in the admin trap it changed to the idea that it must be what I want. And it's true that I'm afraid of hard work and have no ambition.

So some of the things I'm asking about I already knew: confidence, social skills, luck, class, etc. Some things suggested here have been quite new: grit, resilience, emotional intelligence (although nobody's explained what it is exactly), being able to see opportunities.

One thing that happens to me is that even though I'm generally well regarded at work, I tend to go down rather than up i.e. people are able to 'steal' the better parts of my job. There's obviously something very wrong there in that I probably am not proactive enough and don't grab the jobs first or something.

Yes I totally agree. The point I was trying to make was that their educational success allowed them to make choices, and it is interesting that those in a privileged position to choose often choose not to pursue the very intense and demanding careers that are often defined as the pinnacle of 'success' (if by success we mean fulfilling but also materially successful, as your original post suggested - neither of those friends earns much money and they don't have pensions). I know several friends in low-paid caring work - hospital workers, care assistants - who are very fulfilled but aren't financially secure because their work is not valued as 'successful' by employers or policymakers (though it is a hell of a lot more necessary than my own job).

"I may be very naive in this respect, but I don't think I've ever met anyone who didn't have goals. I wholeheartedly agree that not everyone does anything to achieve them; but I think the vast, vast majority of people will have them."

Oh dear. This must be what's wrong with me then. I don't have any. If asked in an interview I say something vague like 'to keep learning'.

OP emotional intelligence means being able to read people, read the room and adjust your behaviour/responses accordingly. Not in a creepy, manipulative way but in a genuine way. And being able to express your own emotions well.

"Also, there's nothing wrong with factory work. I did it to pay bills and fund myself. I was worth doing that for. If I had to do it again I would. Like I said in my PP, don't look down, especially on other people."

I thought I made it clear I didn't look down on other people! Where have you got that idea from???
I did say that it wouldn't be my definition of success for me, which is what matters for this thread. Advice on how to get a factory job wouldn't help with the question.
I would also do it to pay bills, but that's not the point of the thread.

I’d say I’m successful. Certainly academically/ professionally, but also in terms of just having a very comfortable life filled with fun things and a happy, confident outlook.

I largely put it down to luck. I’m lucky to be intelligent and academic (probably because I was lucky to be born into a family where engaged learning was a priority). I’m lucky to have been given the opportunities I have, even though I come from a poor background. I’m lucky to have met certain people when I did and to have been in the right place at the right time.

The rest- a very small proportion- is due to being a bit ballsy. Having the courage to do scary things and push through the fear. I’ve experienced some amazing things and won once-in-a-lifetime prizes because of this “I’ll give it a whirl” attitude. But then, of course, there’s a lot of luck involved in that too.

To be honest, I haven’t worked very hard for where I am. I’ve just bumbled through life and somehow always landed on my feet. I feel incredibly grateful.

"OP emotional intelligence means being able to read people, read the room and adjust your behaviour/responses accordingly."

I don't think I have this - not good at reading between the lines. I'll pick up on an atmosphere, but won't understand it if you know what I mean. I'm also completely not a happy-go-lucky type person that people really like.

Survivorship bias means it isn't really enough to just look at the successful people. There might be just as many people with the same characteristics who fell by the wayside.

It's also a perfectly normal human reaction to deny the influence of luck or privilege - people tend to assume you're accusing them of not working hard, which is untrue.

cucumbergin then people need to start being better.

I wouldn’t say I’m massively successful but I’m ok and I totally realise it is good fortune and some race/nationality privilege that has helped me.

I don’t flagellate myself or feel guilty but I at least recognise that if I wasn’t white/British and not born on the bottom rung of the ladder, I’d be way worse off.

They're persistent even when knocked back. They never give up and have a passion that others don't.
They seek out successful people and take notes.
They invest and don't spend to impress others.
They often have some influence from their childhood.
They see opportunities that others don't.

I knew I wanted to work in a very competitive industry. I'm not from a wealthy background, so I had to think about the best way to do that.

It meant studying hard to get into a good university, and then studying hard when I was there. I had to work evenings and weekends to fund that, so I didn't have loads of time going out and partying, but it was worth it to come out with a good degree.

I then took out a loan to do a postgrad qualification, and worked super-hard at that, as well as working evenings and weekends to pay rent etc.

While I was studying we had to get placements in industry, so I applied somewhere I wanted to work. Once through the door, I worked flat out for them (for free), while also working evenings and weekends. I kept in tough with them throughout my course, asking to go back whenever they'd let me, covering for people who were sick and on holiday, working there (unpaid) through the summer.

I made myself indispensable, so when an entry-level job came up, I got it.

I then worked flat out for them until I got what I wanted. It took years of 70 hour weeks (being paid for 40), volunteering for things, building my experience and contacts.

I left and set up my own consultancy after 15 years and I'm now able to have a better work/life balance. It came at a cost - I put off getting married and having a family so late we needed IVF. I've missed events, holidays and more parties than I can count, but for me, it has been worth it.

Does being able to live in London (if UK based) make a difference? In my field (arts) most senior roles are London based or if not seem go to people with London experience. DH from Edinburgh but feels his career (as statistician) greatly helped by being in London. We made the move to London after uni because ironically enough it was cheap (we have family we could lodge with). Not so for most people.

vegan If you’re already in London and want to work in marketing/pr/finance/whatever, it’s going to be way easier if daddy’s colleague/the neighbour/your cousin’s best friend already works in that sector and can help you get a foot in the door.

Also access to the arts/education etc.

Dunno about England but in Scotland, v few people from rural backgrounds go to university, lots of schemes to try to get them interested.

I’m debating this just now. What is success?

I’m one of those people who compares myself to others and feel like I am a failure. That is such a depressing personality trait to have.

If I worked full time I would earn above £60k, in a professional job and well thought of. I’m quite talented artistically and do that on the side. I’m also studying for another career. People think I’m successful, probably, but I feel like I’m not.

Part of it has been the sheer energy required to getting pregnant, breastfeeding and raising children. I feel like I don’t have energy for anything else and so i am coasting and envy more successful friends

I became successful at a much quicker rate than my peers in my twenties, and I think several factors were in play:

A) a childhood following my father’s job around the country meant that I went to several schools and had to learn very quickly about the social dynamic of the latest, how to read people and where to pitch and present myself.

B) parents who didn’t ever suggest that I should aim lower or exclude certain career paths because I was a girl. A much older brother who gave me good advice about always taking the opportunity to learn in a job ( take courses, learn about colleagues skills) even if they don’t appear to be directly relevant - you never know when they could help at a later date and to apply for unlikely moves if they seemed attractive.

C) a confident manner, a quick learner, well presented .

D) actually applying for things and at a higher level than you might assume - no use sitting back and wondering why others are getting those jobs if you haven’t put yourself out there and tried. Treat a rejection as a learning experience, not a personal failure. There could have been a myriad of reasons why you don’t get a job and it’s not until you recruit staff yourself that you realise it’s often very close between candidates and one tiny thing could tip the balance. At a different company, the decision could have tipped to you - or another person entirely .

E) being willing to put work needs first during the impressing years - lots of travel that was very tiring and compomised my personal life.

F) being a good networker - not in some heavy handed way, going to dull networking events, but just by making good contacts at all kinds of level. Goes back to my first point A) about having to identify the right people to know.

G) being good at what I did and taking pride in the quality of work. People notice bluffers who talk the talk but don’t really deliver .

"The rest- a very small proportion- is due to being a bit ballsy. "

I suppose this is confidence isn't it. Do you think your parents gave you that confidence?

And it's true that I'm afraid of hard work and have no ambition.

That'd be your answer.

Looking at management I've had... it's luck.

Resilience, hard work, determination, self esteem, confidence and ambition.

Literally fuck everyone who says luck. It’s so so so insulting.

"Does being able to live in London (if UK based) make a difference?"

Oh definitely. If you live in London you can live at home and do an unpaid internship even if you're family aren't that well off. Even just living in any city helps.
However, I don't compare myself with people with massive careers in London, but with people from similar backgrounds to me who've been much more successful.

Most 'successful' people have worked hard, but in doing so they overlook the fact the most other 'non-successful' have also worked hard. The difference between the two is, usually, luck - although if you don't work hard (and have a modicum of talent in your chosen field) then luck alone won't be enough.

It’s not luck at all!

"And it's true that I'm afraid of hard work and have no ambition.

That'd be your answer."

I don't think hard work is the thing. I've seen people at levels above me go on FB and leave at 5. Not talking about senior managers or anything just people with more interesting jobs.

As for ambition, I've always wanted to better myself and have done loads of courses, but don't have an actual career in mind so no definite goals.