Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

I think being goal orientated and Planning the steps needed to achieve it is really important. Talking, visualising and writing down your goal also helps. Also being flexible, pragmatic and good at problem solving. A big one is tenacity and self-determination- keeping going even when things get tough or you get rejection. I worked really hard to get to a point where I could apply for a very competitive funded training course (think 100 places nationally per year) I got rejected the first year and was so disappointed. I picked myself up, reapplies and got a place the year after, now fully qualified. I do also think luck /chance does come in to it, sometimes things are just not in your favour on a particular day.

Oh dear. I think we need to define success. There are plenty of normal, happy people in mid range jobs who I would deem as successful, just because they're happy and they've reached their own potential. We shouldn't be discussing other people's success, but rather what our own individual successes and goals are. We don't know what others have had to overcome to achieve their goals.

Success for me today is feeling better than I did yesterday as I have been unwell, and having a long overdue heart to heart with my mum and admitting to myself it's because I miss her terribly that I've been feeling a bit shitty recently. My fancy car on my fancy drive isn't my measure of success today.

Lecturers can be on zero hours contracts as well

This. Education is rapidly moving towards the Sports Direct model of employment due to budget cuts. People who aren’t aware of this often still think that teachers are successful.

An appetite for risk, the inclination to live beneath your means, making sensible choices about marriage and children, hard work and curiosity.

I hate to see women making bad decisions about the men they choose and childbearing. This is a recipe for poverty.

@SwedishEdith no this is a permanent position.
@silkei close to 50k so 🤷‍♀️

I think emotional intelligence is frequently underrated.

My DC with high emotional intelligence seems to finding her path easier than her siblings who (I would guess) have higher IQs.

She seems to have a better work ethic, seeks and takes on board feedback, asks for help and makes friends easier. I wouldn't be surprised to see her end up with a better degree than someone with higher intelligence, who didn't have the soft skills.

I would consider myself successful tbh. I'm in a job that fascinates me that I'm good at, I work family friendly hours, I enjoy going to work and I earn enough to pay my mortgage and put food in our bellies. What more do I need to be successful?

Oh, I "only" earn 27k doing admin/planner work.

"Oh dear. I think we need to define success."

Thanks winter, but as it's my question, it's my definition of success isn't it, which I gave in an earlier post in response to Swedish Edith - interesting, fulfilling work with good work-life balance, not low-paid, but not necessarily highly paid either.

"There are plenty of normal, happy people in mid range jobs who I would deem as successful, just because they're happy and they've reached their own potential. "

Yes, but I'm not one of them and am exploring what is wrong with me.

Sounds good Lady. Do you consider it a career? I don't think a job has to have opportunities for progression to be a good one, but I think it helps.

Oh dear. I think we need to define success

I’d say it means “doing significantly better than average”. Achieving wealth or fame or being a winner and exceeding others in some way. If you’re earning an average salary and living an average life in an average house then you’re not successful.

Others may define success as accomplishing your goals, even if those goals aren’t well paid. Someone may feel successful by becoming a nurse if that’s their vocation. That wouldn’t be my definition - I see success as extraordinary rather than ordinary.

Admin jobs that pay 27k do exist in my city, but they are few and far between and usually involve having started somewhere a long time ago. The average is more like 17 to 19k, at least when you start in a new job.
I had a well paid job once, but was so miserable that I took a massive pay cut to do something else.

I think social skills and confidence are the most important. I know several people from privileged backgrounds with very good qualifications who are shy and bad at selling themselves. They are doing fine but not what most would term 'successful'. Similarly know plenty from very average backgrounds who are so at ease socially, they are fun and engaging and can easily get on with anyone. They are successful, in impressive, well paid jobs.

I do indeed consider it my career. I've worked in various bits of admin over the years and tbh I've found it incredibly useful in progressing. I've always set my sights on which team I want to admin for then volunteered to take minutes, check over reports etc.

I started at the company I'm in now with the view of moving into project management eventually. I started as a basic minimum wage "book meeting rooms and make tea" admin and it was boring as anything. However I made myself useful to the planners, asked questions etc and then when a planner position came up I was in a strong position to apply. I did and was successful.

From here I could go further up the chain, learn a few programmes, take a few exams and do very well, but, with that comes greater responsibility and I like working to live not living to work.

(My dad is an incredibly driven man and was extremely successful in his field. He ended up having a breakdown)

"Oh dear. I think we need to define success

I’d say it means “doing significantly better than average”. Achieving wealth or fame or being a winner and exceeding others in some way. If you’re earning an average salary and living an average life in an average house then you’re not successful. "

OK. Thanks for all your input, but the thread is hopefully to answer my question of how to be successful according to my definition of it.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that success is whatever you're OK with. I wouldn't consider factory work a good job even if some people are reasonably happy with it, but nursing is a reasonably well paid career that is respected and that can be interesting and provide opportunities. (Far too much hard physical work for me though).

Lady - do you think some of your success is down to working at big places? There seems to have been quite a few things an admin person could go into. I don't even know what a planner is.
I agree about working to live!

I am in my late 30s and in my dream job which as it happens is widely viewed as being the pinnacle of success in my field. I also have the ear of politicians and media types. I frequently ask myself the question you posed, OP. My DH is a researcher in this area and it is clear that as many have said, social class, and sex, and race, are THE major factors. I went to an ordinary school and am the most "successful" of my peers. Most of my peers, from ordinary backgrounds, are in our home town on short-term contracts and struggling to make ends meet. I was among the fortunate few who could afford university (pre-fees, and there were grants for us, but the loans made it unaffordable for most of my friends).

Cliche alert, but those who were the highest achievers at school, and had the funds to go to university, have often actively decided to prioritise family and work/life balance - one left a 'top' job at the UN to become a freelance writer in order to have more time for sports and family, while the scientist with an Oxbridge First and PhD is now a part-time dance teacher with 2 lovely kids. Obviously these choices are partly shaped by money, and by family support, and by societal constraints - it is a shame that being a scientist was, for my friend, ultimately incompatible with being the kind of parent she wanted to be. I'm really glad we had an education that encouraged us to think about life in the round and not just 'success'.
For me, 'success' per se never appealed, but I was lucky enough to know at a very early age that the arts are where my passion is, and to be encouraged by school and family. Education was hugely important in allowing me free tuition in music, arts etc that is now cut back. I cheered when I saw Labour's commitment to arts education in the GE manifesto because this imbued so many of my peers with confidence and gave us interests and broadened our horizons.
In my 20s I had a serious illness that made various career choices impossible, and perhaps this focused my mind on what was available. I love what I do, am 100 percent dedicated, but like others have said, winning jobs and promotions is a bit of a game and you need to know the rules. Simply being 'talented' is not enough, in fact is often less important than carefully working out what a particular workplace wants. I quickly spotted a gap in my field that I was deeply interested in filling. That has been really helpful.
I have always had great female and feminist mentors and they REALLY helped by showing me where the opportunities were, so I did not have to fight many battles til I got near the 'top'.

Luck plays a part. I never wanted to work in the so-called 'elite' place I am now, because experience of temporary work here had shown me it can be a very stressful place to be. But after I was bullied out of my last workplace, I realised that working where I do would allow me the scope to do what I wanted to a greater extent. The same day I applied for my current 'senior' role I also applied for a hospital porter's job, as a friend in that job told me it offered better work/life balance than I had at that point. But fortunately my current workplace and colleagues have just been a fantastic fit for me - I am not naturally sociable but have made great friends here; the culture and the perspectives of those I work with are similar to mine.

Of course it is mostly luck. Even if that luck is just being born with the right temperament. It just isn't fashionable in these days of worshipping the individual to admit that.
Id guess it is about 70-80% luck at least and around 20-30% hard work/planning/ effort etc.

MN really is somewhat obsessed with 'privilege' and class

I'm a lecturer and, according to Silkei's definition, far from successful: like so many others, I am stuck in the part-time contract/fulltime workload trap. I earn far less than 30k and have to supply my own teaching and research materials a lot of the time. Financially, it is difficult because the demands made on me (e.g. to be able to go off to the US on a grant that doesn't cover the actual costs) presuppose a comfortable background.

But students of mine are going out in the world and using the skills I have given them to do interesting and fulfilling work. That is a kind of success.

The book I published this autumn is a good book and unlikely to be replaced any time soon. That is a kind of success.

I have plans for work that seems to me worthwhile and that will keep me interested for the rest of my working life. That is a measure of success.

And I do have colleagues who have been far more successful than me (very nice people too!), so it is clear that success- financial and academic is possible, even though the climate is not very positive at the moment.

Looking at it dispassionately, I would say my own lack of success could be divided into two separate fields:

factors beyond my control (foreigner with no contacts & wrong educational background, many years as carer of disabled child, health problems)

factors which I can still do something about (willingness to step out of my comfort zone and accept that new skills and new ways of thinking may be required, more planning ahead, more assertiveness in demanding new roles, less self-effacing, greater singlemindedness)

I have yet to meet an academic who feels they can take 7-8 weeks holiday, though.

I'm listening to the classic 'how to make friends and influence people' on audiobook and it's reinforced what I already believed - the most successful people have excellent people and communication skills. It's about how you work with others, network, build professional relationships, how to communicate ideas.. obviously there's other stuff like privilege, class etc that changes the opportunities one is exposed to.. but people and interpersonal skills, and having a natural talent for them, transcends those 'born into' privileges, and most importantly, can be taught/learnt, if you have the right mindset for it. And of course, having an ambitious and goal oriented attitude.

Yes, yes I do. I live in the middle of nowhere but within commuting distance of several big companies.

Let's see:

Out of school, barely any exams - purchase ledger in the civil service.

3 years later after I totally screwed that job up... (very immature and no work ethic at that point) I jumped ship and went to work as a number cruncher at a massive pension company.

Got on really well there and moved up to senior admin with a couple of exams taken.

Left to work at a small agricultural place closer to home. Hated it. Backstabbing environment. No progression.

Took basic admin "foot in the door" role at massive engineering/defence company.

Planners are project planners, they are the people in the middle of a project keeping a handle on the budgets, the timelines and preparing all the review documents, contracts etc. (Very basic description there)

@Gwenhwyfar sorry, I went off topic.

You are right. As for exploring why you are have hit a bit of a wall I have the following comments.

1. Don't put yourself down. The fact that you are self reflecting and trying to find out how to be successful is a good start.

1. Try and find ways of getting constructive feedback. Are there some people in your life who are able to tell you straight about your strengths and weaknesses? L

You need to be able to heed good feedback and not get defensive when people are criticising you in order to improve. I was lucky as my late father had me nailed and I thankfully listened to him although it wasn't pretty to hear sometimes. Do you have people like that? If not I think there maybe professional career/life coaches who can help you on a self awareness path.

1. If you're not good at one thing are you an all rounder? Can you take one skill and go with it or do you prefer to do a bit of everything? Trial and error is not working for you and it's seems that there is some misplaced effort. Although finding out what you're not good at is just as important, it's obviously been demoralising for you.

Hang in there, you will get there, just be more proactive about seeking out the right career path.

"one left a 'top' job at the UN to become a freelance writer in order to have more time for sports and family"

I would still consider being a freelance writer being successful though. I thought you were going to write to became a factory worker, cleaner or something. No disrespect to those jobs, but they wouldn't meet my criteria of interesting and fulfilling and not being to low paid.

otterturk when something impacts every area of every single person’s life and success and outcomes, of course people are going to be ‘obsessed’ with it. If anything I’d say people aren’t obsessed enough, if the number of Thatcherite ‘pulled meself up by me bootstraps me’ on this thread is anything to go by.

Also, there's nothing wrong with factory work. I did it to pay bills and fund myself. I was worth doing that for. If I had to do it again I would. Like I said in my PP, don't look down, especially on other people.