I’ve accidentally raised a brat and I don’t know how to deal with it

[Babayaggatheboneylegged]

I’m at a loss over how to deal with my six-year-old daughter.

She’s been a ‘tricky’ character all her life. As in, not very amenable and not one for just getting on with things. If she’s unhappy about a situation, she makes it VERY clear. She can be really sweet and caring, but she is very stroppy, sometimes with a self-destructive streak. She’s usually prepared to cut off her nose to spite her face.

This year, we agreed with my husband’s siblings (most of whom also have kids) that we’d chip in and get one present for the dc from the collective aunties and uncles, to reduce the sheer amount of STUFF the kids get. I’m particularly in favour of this as we live in a small house, and I just don’t think my kids really need anything. I hate that Christmas ‘thing’ of getting stuff for the sake of it.

So my kids have got tickets to a show this weekend as their ‘aunties and uncles’ pressie. I mentioned it to DD this morning on the way to school, and she sighed loudly and moaned. Like it was this massive chore to her.

I was thinking, WTF? I said she needed to remember how lucky she is, how that was no way to behave when we’re talking about a gift someone has given her etc.

She turned to me and said, ‘well, I don’t believe in Christmas!’

As is often the case with dd, I didn’t actually know what to say in response to this.

As she was going into school, I asked her again, nicely, to remember how lucky she was and she replied with the ‘I don’t even believe in Christmas,’ thing again. I said it didn’t matter what she believed in, she was very lucky and shouldn’t be spoilt and ungrateful. And then she went into school.

I think she is spoilt. We take her lots of nice places, we have a big extended family who are all really generous to her and she wants for nothing. We’ve never been the kind of parents who give her everything she asks for. We do say ‘no’ to a lot of stuff.

But it’s clearly not enough. I’m just so disappointed.

And I don’t know how to address it.

Part of me is SERIOUSLY tempted to say, well if you don’t believe in Christmas, we won’t do it then. And give her presents away. But I know I’d never actually go through with it.

But is there anything I can do without resorting to this sort of nuclear option? I so don’t want to raise an entitled and ungrateful child. And yet here we are…

Has anyone out there successfully tackled an attitude problem like this? Is she likely to grow out of this kind of thing?

When she said she doesn't believe in Christmas I would've said as neutrally as possible -'Well that's handy as Santa doesn't come to ungrateful little girls'. Then ignore. I found variants on that theme worked a treat for me.

She just sounds tired to me. I don’t actually see anything terrible I what she said. She clearly said the first thing to make herself feel better.

I take my dc to the theatre a lot, they never have the huge anticipation weeks in advance but get excited on the day on our way or as we’re there and they’re there with their friends. Now as older teens they reminisce about the trips and ask it go to the theatre as a present.

I’d ask her what she means about not. Pricing in Christmas if it bothers you. But I reckon she just said it because you were pushing at her to feel lucky for what you’re giving her, so she came out with the I don’t believe in Christmas thing. Which is meaningless as really neither do you, you said it’s not a religious festival for your family anyway.

When I was a kid when friends asked us what we got for Christmas I’d tell them oh we don’t celebrate Christmas it’s not our festival so we don’t get gifts during Christmas. I’ll get presnets on our festival. Which seemed acceptable to my friends and peers and nobody questioned it any further.
I doubt it’s anotger six year old influencing her to not believe in Christmas (whatever it means).

I think you need it stop expecting your six year old to be incredibly greatful all the time for the life you can afford her. And tell her you’re excited to spend time with her.

At this time of year I find the kids are all tired from a really long school term, they’re all full of cold and bugs and just need a bit of downtime.

I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it. She doesn’t sound like a brat to me.

you wanted her to say "oh lovely, mummy, I can't wait to go to the show" and skip along. But she didn't. Some children are all wide-eyed wonder and joy at age 6 and some are grumpier and less enchanted with life.

I agree with previous poster that this is all so intense. If one of mine had sighed in response at that age, I'd have either said "don't be a ungrateful grump" or joked "well you could at least fake a bit of enthusiasm kiddo" depending on my own mood. And then I'd have forgotten about it. the I don't believe in christmas would gotten a "very sensible of you" or similar. Can't believe people told you to punish her or cancel christmas or not bring her to the show. She is 6!

As a general rule I think it worth making sure our children understand how lucky they are. And as a general rule I think grumpy children need to be reared so they understand that sulking isn't acceptable and eye rolling is rude and they need to be aware of how their mood affects other people. But she doesn't actually have to like everything and be thrilled with everything.

You sound like really involved, loving parents but I also suspect you and her dad rise beautifully to her moods. Which must be satisfying to her on one level but she probably is anxious that she has that effect too. I'd back off, start trying to defuse with humour and be less intense.

I don't think she sounds like a brat all. Painfully honest which probably needs to be worked on a bit but not a brat. Big family outings are my idea of utter hell so I don't do them. I like Christmas myself but I would hate to be forced into feeling a certain way about it because others wanted me to.

'Well that's handy as Santa doesn't come to ungrateful little girls'.

Would you really say that to a little six year old 2 weeks before Christmas? Santa is supposed to add a little magic to children's lives. not be used as a weapon.

And I thought maybe she did the ‘I don’t believe in xmas’ thing to try to get a reaction out of me, because we’ve always celebrated xmas in as much as we get together with family, do presents and eat turkey.

That's something an adult, or much older child would do. To link going to the theatre at the weekend, Christmas and your love of Christmas to specifically have a go at you is much above a 6yo imo.

Also in the nicest, nicest way, it's not always about you. Sometimes we fall into the habit of thinking everything our kids do is about us and it's not. Sometimes they're just a tired, slightly cranky 6yo who doesn't want to talk.

Something to keep in mind is that of all the people in the world that she should be able to be honest with you are one of the two. You and her Dad she should be able to be too tired to want to go to the theatre. Believe me the last thing you want is your child to react to everything on rote without ever showing you true emotion. That's something I learned very, very young and it's a very hard habit to break even now. I've been married for over 10 years and I learned to be so good at seeming like I loved a present/idea/plan that my husband still can't tell often (and gets surprised that I'm so genuinely delighted by wrong size slippers).

Yes I would and I have done to my DS. I wouldn't let my DC away with that stuff. Presents are to be received with an element of graciousness. Parents work hard to afford them. Some kids get fuck all. I work with them every week. So a simple reminder not to be ungrateful is perfectly ok. Santa comes to the nice not the naughty - I didn't make those rules.

Some kids get fuck all. I work with them every week....Santa comes to the nice not the naughty are the kids you work with naughty?

That’s the thing, lalalalyra, I think that there’s a sort of skill involved in not letting your disappointment show when you get the wrong sized slippers. I would always be more worried about offending or upsetting the giver, I wouldn’t want to give them the idea they had somehow got it ‘wrong’.

I appreciate that she is still very young, but it’s no bad thing to realise that it’s sometimes judicious to keep your true feelings to yourself, is it? I’m not even talking in relation to DDs reaction to the show this morning now, more in general terms.

One of my closest friends always rails against the ‘enforced apology’ thing with children, but I don’t think that teaching kids there are situations where they should say sorry is a bad thing. If we don’t teach them this, when and how do they learn?

My DC knew to say thank you at 6 - though not sure they always hid their disapointment - we usually jumped in and helped by making fuss of item.

It comes - you model the behavior.

I insist on thank yous and tell them its polite and that said person put effort in for them so they need to be polite.

I don't think you can insist they need to feel a certain way - but polite behavior is something to aim for.

Yes I would and I have done to my DS. I wouldn't let my DC away with that stuff. Presents are to be received with an element of graciousness.

She wasn't receiving a present. She was having a conversation with her mother about going to a show which had already been given to her as a present.

You can call children on lack of gratitude without threatening them with santa not coming - that is just a lazy response.

you want your dc to keep their feelings to themselves?

You want your six year old not to express her feelings to you, her mum?

I think you have massive expectations of your six year old.

And she wasn’t being rude to her aunties and uncles for the gift she was being grouchy non morning person who hasn’t slept much.

I'm obviously too harsh but would've said something along the lines of " well, me, dad and brother are going on Saturday. Have a think and let me know if you want to go by tonight. If you don't you can stay home and we'll take someone else".

I think it doesn't hurt children to be taught about manners from an early age.

I asked m DS if he'd like to go see a specific show - he said yes enthusiastically. I wouldn't be prepared to pay those prices unless people are very enthusiastic about going.

Her reaction probably has more to do with what happened at home, combined with Xmas excitement/fatigue. You had a go at her, and her dramatic sigh was likely a delayed response to that, not really anything to do with the planned outing. It was in her 6-year-old’s mind a way to get back at you for telling her off. I wouldn’t punish her for that. Unless you are going to punish yourself for your own grumpiness as well.

As for not believing in Xmas, that may be an attempt at solidarity with her friend. Or another way to assert herself.

I quite agree with some PPs that expectations for children’s behaviour can at times be unrealistic WRT gratitude and the excitement they are meant to display whenever they are presented with a treat. Of course gratitude is something to be encouraged, but a private moan about an upcoming event shouldn’t be greeted with horror and catastrophising. Defuse the moment and briskly move on.

I’ve learned not to do the ‘have a think about what you want to do and if you don’t fancy it we’ll take one of your friends’ because she WILL cut off her nose to spite her face and would say she didn’t want to go, even if she really did. That’s what I find so tricky about her. She will be stubborn to the last, even if she knows it’s to her detriment.

What I am still struggling with is what’s reasonable for me to expect of her? I’m prepared to cut her some slack for this morning because of the tiredness, but I don’t want her thinking she can just turn her nose up at things and that’s all ok...

I know it sounds harsh, but perhaps she needs to learn not to be so stubborn?

I wouldn't threaten not going with DS because he's take it.

I'd do we are going and you'll behave. Even if he's in a strop leaving the house he usually clams down and enjoys himself though he can be an arse up to that point. He's generally considered a polite well manner boy by everyone else who meets him.

I don’t want her thinking she can just turn her nose up at things and that’s all ok...

She had a bad morning and wasn't enthusiastic about an event happening quiet a distance in the future for her to you her Mum not the person who gave her the gift. I don’t think she has turned up her nose at anything TBH.

" well, me, dad and brother are going on Saturday. Have a think and let me know if you want to go by tonight. If you don't you can stay home and we'll take someone else".

I would never give a 6 year old this much power.

I’m not sure I’d have made a big deal of it. Probably just an “oh, that’s a shame, I think you’ll enjoy it” then move on. I’m not sure my six year old is always very good at imagining how something will be so he might grumble about it. But I’d probably mainly ignore it and change the subject then when we’d been to the thing and he’d enjoyed it he could show his gratitude.

I also wonder about you saying she’s always been “tricky”. It’s a bit self fulfilling isn’t it? If that’s how you see her then you’re probably going to blame her inherently “tricky” personality rather than that she’s tired/affected by what has gone on/just in a grumpy mood.

I’m not trying to criticise by the way, it’s hard when you’re disappointed by your child’s behaviour and it’s pretty obvious you’re not a bad mum. It’s just a different perspective. Enjoy the show!

OP, of course you want her to be polite to auntie. In the same way as you would be polite to someone who gave you a treat, even if it happened to come at the wrong time or wasn't really what you wanted or you just felt tired at the thought of it. But wouldn't you also feel entitled to let off a little steam in a situation where the kind present-giver couldn't hear you. Isn't that what we have MN for, so we can grumble at things that we know we can't grumble at in real life? Isn't that we have confidential friends for?

Yes, it would be bad manners if your 6yo said this to auntie and uncle. But she didn't. And you will make sure she writes a nice thank-you letter or thanks them on the phone. Job done.

taybert, I hear what you’re saying. When I say she’s always been ‘tricky’ I mean she was a very uncontent baby and then she moved on to being an easily upset toddler. She was never really content to just ‘be’, the way some small children are. Most things from the age of 0-3 seemed to piss her right off!

All my friends (who are parents) think/thought she’s hard work, and my parents and in-laws have all said she is hard work compared to the children they had. Possibly because if you do the ‘well we don’t have to do the nice thing if you don’t want to,’ she won’t fold!

I now sound horribly critical of her, but she can be such a clever, funny and caring little girl.

I don’t want her to grow up with a complex, but I would like her to occasionally make life a little less hard for herself!

What KurriKurri says about anxiety, that's immediately what I thought too.

I'm exactly the same and I'm in my 30s !!!!

My mum is also the same. She wants to cancel Xmas every year and deep down to she feels it's all too much, i think she gets anxiety from not knowing who is doing what, it all being left to the last minute and predicting that she'll ultimately be disappointed anyway (due to family issues not for materialistic reasons) etc

It does sound to me like the poor kid has been labelled as highly strung/hard to please and even if her reaction is down to normal six year old behaviour you automatically put it done or he even being ‘difficult’.

And I would not give a six year old the option of not going on a family trip.

It sounds so exhausting tho. You’ve not had the reaction you wanted so you’re upset with her.

I really really wouldn’t be disciplining her over this it’s a non issue.

Have a think are a lot of her ‘being difficult’ also this kind of (non)issue?

Are your reactions to her coloured by her being a fractious baby?

I think the fact that she is ‘difficult’ and always has been does naturally shape the way I react to her, yes.

I sometimes find it exhausting that she can’t just get on with things if conditions are slightly sub-optimal. She complains a LOT and I’m really not a complainer. I do struggle with that.

On the other hand, I really admire her single mindedness and the fact she is happy to be herself and would never make concessions to try to ‘fit in’. I think that’s awesome.

I just want day-to-day life not to be a constant battle...