to tell my friend to sod off with her helpful husband!

[QwertyLou]

Thanks for the amazing advice before & this is my last question on this party I promise (its on Sunday so it better be)!!

My son (nearly 4) is going through an arty-crafty stage. He loves painting more than anything. So I wasn't surprised when he announced he wanted to do painting "with my friends for my WHOLE party!"

So we're doing some painting at his party (15 mins or so), along with lots of other fun things. Just little plaster rockets and spaceships, one for each child to paint and they take it home.

When I mentioned this to a friend she made a horrified face... "Painting... for boys??" And recommended I scrap it for a football session, perhaps with the man from her son's party.

I hadn't even realised that painting was considered "un-manly" and boys were not supposed to enjoy it... is that a thing?

My son enjoyed the football session, but not enough to want the same thing. Plus it was an hour-long session - I'd have to scrap half the party! Which I explained to my friend.

Unbeknownst to me she gave my no. to Football Man who contacted me, so I explained myself again and thought that was it. But no.

Yesterday my friend announced that she has kindly lined up her husband ("John") to do a football activity "in parallel" with the painting. So her son and other boys can do football while anyone else is painting.

I said that of course John, would be welcome to play football with their son during the painting if they want. No child, boy or girl, will be compelled to paint a plaster rocket against their will! We'll be in the back garden with plenty of things to do.

But I really do not want John to announce an official "Come on kids line up over here!!" activity just as the painting is starting. The whole idea is to bring everyone (or most people) together for a quieter activity they can enjoy as a group - then we'll have the cake.

And my son is really excited about painting with his friends. I keep finding him in the kitchen, gazing longingly up at all the paint stuff. If they all race off to play football, it will defeat the whole purpose [delete](plus I'll be left with a mountain of plaster rockets)[delete].

I explained all this to my friend but she was having none of it.

She said John was more than happy to do it, it would be fun, it was important to let "boys be boys" and she knows it must be hard for me as a single mum to cater for boys, hence her lining up John.

We were both getting our sons into the car after nursery and she drove off after that.

So as it stands, John is "kindly" doing this official activity on Sunday.

I don't want him to, but what do I say to make that clear without offending anyone?

Part of me feels a bit ungrateful too. We single mothers of boys are constantly berated by society to ensure our sons have good male role models (GMRM) or they will turn into anti-social, drug-taking juvenile delinquents.

And lo and behold, here one is - a GMRM - volunteering something!
And am I gratefully accepting? No, I am saying no (trying to)!

Yes, full time mum. She already had child #1 when she met him, I remember people implying (even at their wedding ) how lucky she was that such a fine man had “taken her on” with a toddler in tow.

They had another baby quite soon and she hasn’t worked (in a paid role) since.

Oh shit, that poor, poor woman.
The 'everything's so wonderful' stuff is all an act, and she will be being forced to comply with it. I was wondering what sort of leverage John the Shit had over her and it's probably to do with her older child - John may threaten to stop supporting the child or something if Jane is disobedient or hints to outsiders that the marriage is not 'perfect'. Or he may be keeping her in line with threats to harm the DC (not at all unusual for an abuser on this level to have convinced the woman that attempts to leave will lead to him killing them all).
And abusers of this type are often very, very good at keeping up the image of themselves as Wonderful Family Men - just look at the bullshit they were trying to peddle to you about your party: that Wonderful John will come along and be wonderful, just because he's wonderful (and a woman-hating prick but we don't talk about that.)

I'd be slightly inclined to watch my own back for a bit, if I were you, OP. A man who hates women as much as John does might decide that you need to be punished for your disobedience and ingratitude, too - I don't mean he'll be creeping up behind you with an axe or anything, but there may be more heavy-handed attempts to interfere and possibly a bit of rumour-mongering to the effect that you're 'not coping' as a single parent.

If I want to quote someone, @QuertyLou, I cut and paste the quote, and put it in italics (by putting ^ before and after the quote). Hope that helps.

Yes I agree that if anyone at the hen’s night had been assertive enough to send John home.. Jane probably would have gone too!

In fact when I was really down after getting left while pregnant I decided to have a “girl’s night out”, I didn’t want any lovey-dovey couples making me feel even worse about my newly single state!

I said I would really love Jane to come, this was my last time before having the babe. But not John!! She was going to come but at the last minute backed out:

Op was the first child a boy?
I'm getting the feeling he was influencing with the boys need a dad pish before with wedding.

Thank you WolefGenius! just on my phone so i’m Having trouble copying but i’ll Be able to do it from my computer next time

Yes how did you guess! First child was a boy, biological father was not around.

Actually sounds a bit like my own situation now but has been easier because being older than Jane was, am better established financially and career wise.

So all Jane’s well meaning empathy / sympathy for my sorry single state grates a bit sometimes - nobody wants to be pitied!

You are very welcome!

So many red flags all over that relationship!
My DH has never ‘checked’ my phone. Why would someone who loves and trusts me need to be checking up on me. If he asked to borrow my phone that would be fine, but ‘checking’ it, nope, I am not a child who needs my phone use monitoring.

Having it synced so that he can always see everything she is sent, is beyond creepy and controlling.

Then there’s his attendance at hen nights, last minute dropping out of meeting up with you. Loss of friendships along the way. Telling you not to reply to emails. And neither of them came to the party, when you thought that at least she would.

When did you last see her without John?

I would be trying to engineer meeting up with her at a time that you know he can't make it, and getting her to leave her phone behind so she can’t be tracked and/or listened in to remotely. This sounds like a woman in a desperate situation who has been brainwashed into thinking she is ‘lucky’ he took her and her child on and is being completely dominated and controlled by him. She is going to need a friend at some point.

@Chamomiletea I know because John told a mate of his, they were talking about tech stuff which they’re both into. The mate told his wife, who told me.

Just read your thread which is obviously about so much more than a four year olds party which sounds great. Does anyone actually feel sorry for the little girl who wanted to do gardening at her party and had a pamper party instead at the age of 5? Initially I was going to say that both your friend and her DH sound weird but now I agree there are red flags everywhere showing he is controlling. I would be seriously worried for your friend who does not have any financial independence or work outlet, does not appear to be allowed to go out without her husband and has her phone messages checked. I bet he is one of those stalker husbands who wants to know her location at all times and has the find my iphone(or similar) on his iPad so he can track her movements. My husband and I do not check each other's phones after 36 years of marriage. Would happily show each other messages if asked but I have never seen the need to and neither has he.

OMG I'm actually very worried for both Jane and DS1. I hope the boy isn't at risk in other ways, Iykwim

Lock up your rabbits, he's definitely a bunny boiler 🐰
Going in a hen night with your husband - WHO DOES THAT!!! 🙄🙄🙄

Given mel b's ex made her get an apparently gushing tattoo about HIM that she's had removed, nothing about this type of arsehole would surprise me now I think.

Certainly possible for one to insist that anything public (eg Facebook) only be favourable about their relationship.

My dad is abusive & controlling I can definitely see him if he were 40 years younger & au fait with the tech doing all this! He's bad enough now if mum is out anywhere without him and doesn't answer texts/calls immediately! He also would have punished her if she'd given any indication in public or to friends or even family that they were anything but a loving couple. Her friends & family saw through it but if they indicated as much in a way he got to know she suffered the consequences.

He can no longer physically abuse her but after over 40 years she's well trained and he is still the one in control - communications, finances, her schedule.

Be very careful how you handle this. Just because you've not yet seen any indication of physical abuse too doesn't mean it's not happening (indeed I'm wondering if that's why neither came to the party) nor that even if it's not happening it couldn't start. My dad was very careful in not leaving marks/bruises where they might be visible in public.

It can be tricky to see Jane on her own. I work full time in the city, I can see friends for coffee or lunch during the week, but outside work hours it’s all about my son (mother guilt for working full time.. part time wasn’t really an option unfortunately!).

Jane lives a way out, four kids, lots of extra curriculars to transport them to and help with.

She does bring her youngest two over every 2 weeks for a play on Saturday morning, then 2 weeks later i’ll take “Ben” to hers. We don’t necessarily stay (the idea is to have one Saturday morning a month with a child -free hour or two!) and even if we do, the kids are running around so you can’t really talk!

I reached the decision not to take Ben around to their place anymore but Sam and Lucy are more than welcome to keep coming here (and I really hope they do.. the three of them play so well together).

I am having the rage right now and I've only read the OP post. What a "friend" you have!!

Ah read some more now - goes to show there often a lot more to story than one online post can say!

OP, I have one FB friend who gushes about her DH and how wonderful she is. I know for a fact she's miserable and a subject of emotional/physical/financial abuse. Several kids in the picture, of course. I click like on her posts sometimes because she is clearly desperate to feel good about something in her life and an idyllic FB profile is it. Poor thing.

@FitzChivalryFarseer last saw Jane Friday night at nursery pick up

Wow having now caught up with the thread I’m really quite worried for her :(

4 kids!!!! In a very short period of time is another red flag. Men use pregnancy as a way of control.

The more you say the more worried I become. Does he work?

Oh no has anyone seen the Shanann Watts / Christopher Watts case in the US? The Facebook posts are a bit like that! I think i’m getting paranoid now.. i’m probably imagining things.

I do want to be a good friend but I’m a bit nervous, a lot of people have made good points on this thread.

If he reacted so harshly to my polite email clarifying my son’s birthday party ... how might he react if he perceives me “disrespecting him” to Jane or something?

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, nor do I know, what if anything they would / could do. But do you think it would be worth a call to SS that you think she is in an abusive relationship and you think kids may be at risk?

So many little bits putting together a big picture.

Unfortunately there is only so much you can do about the situation OP. For all you know she could be in the "Surrendered wife" BS and be a willing partner to the control.

All you can do is minimize all contact with John by not taking ds there anymore, and keep contact open with Jane. I don't know if even saying anything to her now is the right course of action, it might make her cut you out of her life too.

Does she read MN? Maybe you can steer her to the relationships board with a link to a funny unrelated thread (in case he sees it)? And encourage her to surf around?

Hi OP, I got away from my controlling and abusive husband only last year.

A few examples of mine and his behavior over the time.

1. He monitored all messages and social media. God help me if I ever actually looked at his but I was "free" to ask.

2. He also responded as me a few times. Usually something benign so i couldn't complain as "what have i done" but a few times it was to cause trouble under the guise of protecting me or our family.

3. I made sure I was always busy with the kids. I was out of the house as much as possible. It meant he got his alone time and we were safe. To anyone on the outside it looked like the kids had the busiest social lives.

4. I slowly distanced myself from friends. It wasn't a conscious decision of "oh I mustn't go out" it was more, is it worth the argument if I go out, the inevitable fall out,the punishment, besides I was always busy with activities so I had ready made excuses.

5. Any friends I did have must be met during the day and only when I have the kids. Again he can't be expected to look after them and he knew I couldn't talk with the kids needing attention every 2 minutes.

Toward the end of our relationship I just started doing as I felt he wanted. He didn't even have to say anything, I'd been with him over 10 years I know his beliefs, and isn't it easier if it's me and him against the world? Won't he be pleased when i tell him that I pushed his view without having to be threatened or warned?

The tactic may have saved me from a few assaults but it never stopped anything. It's hard to get people to understand that I did these things seemingly of free will but under the threat of past experience. Most people will (thankfully) never understand.

On the other side, I don't think I could listen to any of my friends back then if they had approached me. I was 'safer' where I was, appeasing him for protection against his outbursts. When I did get the strength to leave I had a small few friends waiting for me, it made all the difference. I've lost so many people but knowing they were there made it possible.

I don't believe there is anything you can do, distance yourself for yours and your son's safety, but if you're comfortable with it, just be available. That is a decision that is solely yours though and all the advice on mumsnet or RL can't make it an easy. Your DS is priority.