to tell my friend to sod off with her helpful husband!

[QwertyLou]

Thanks for the amazing advice before & this is my last question on this party I promise (its on Sunday so it better be)!!

My son (nearly 4) is going through an arty-crafty stage. He loves painting more than anything. So I wasn't surprised when he announced he wanted to do painting "with my friends for my WHOLE party!"

So we're doing some painting at his party (15 mins or so), along with lots of other fun things. Just little plaster rockets and spaceships, one for each child to paint and they take it home.

When I mentioned this to a friend she made a horrified face... "Painting... for boys??" And recommended I scrap it for a football session, perhaps with the man from her son's party.

I hadn't even realised that painting was considered "un-manly" and boys were not supposed to enjoy it... is that a thing?

My son enjoyed the football session, but not enough to want the same thing. Plus it was an hour-long session - I'd have to scrap half the party! Which I explained to my friend.

Unbeknownst to me she gave my no. to Football Man who contacted me, so I explained myself again and thought that was it. But no.

Yesterday my friend announced that she has kindly lined up her husband ("John") to do a football activity "in parallel" with the painting. So her son and other boys can do football while anyone else is painting.

I said that of course John, would be welcome to play football with their son during the painting if they want. No child, boy or girl, will be compelled to paint a plaster rocket against their will! We'll be in the back garden with plenty of things to do.

But I really do not want John to announce an official "Come on kids line up over here!!" activity just as the painting is starting. The whole idea is to bring everyone (or most people) together for a quieter activity they can enjoy as a group - then we'll have the cake.

And my son is really excited about painting with his friends. I keep finding him in the kitchen, gazing longingly up at all the paint stuff. If they all race off to play football, it will defeat the whole purpose [delete](plus I'll be left with a mountain of plaster rockets)[delete].

I explained all this to my friend but she was having none of it.

She said John was more than happy to do it, it would be fun, it was important to let "boys be boys" and she knows it must be hard for me as a single mum to cater for boys, hence her lining up John.

We were both getting our sons into the car after nursery and she drove off after that.

So as it stands, John is "kindly" doing this official activity on Sunday.

I don't want him to, but what do I say to make that clear without offending anyone?

Part of me feels a bit ungrateful too. We single mothers of boys are constantly berated by society to ensure our sons have good male role models (GMRM) or they will turn into anti-social, drug-taking juvenile delinquents.

And lo and behold, here one is - a GMRM - volunteering something!
And am I gratefully accepting? No, I am saying no (trying to)!

John is a prick, and a dangerous one. He's the sort of abuser that features in thriller novels more than real life, but they do exist.
The best thing you can do for Jane is carry on being her friend and treat John with smiling indifference ie do not give him an inch but don't directly challenge him. He may well start being nasty to you in the hope that you will 'take offence' and cut contact, but he's unlikely to forbid Jane to see you in case people start to talk.
Jane is almost certainly fucking terrified of him. There will be some sort of punishment system in place in their household for those times when she disagrees with him, doesn't deliver what he wants (for instance, was unable to force you into obeying John) or just when he feels like keeping her on her toes.
If you've been friends with her for a long time, try to gently coax her towards WA/the Lundy Bancroft book/other support/at least confiding in you. But you may find you can't help her and need to detach yourself.

Been lurking on this thread a bit and rather worried about the turn it has taken. Just wanted to add my voice to others saying DH never checks my phone and I never check his.

The idea of a husband seeing his wife's messages in real time reminds me of that scene in Mad Men where Betty Draper's psychiatrist phones her husband to discuss her therapy session! The idea that a woman is not an independent adult with rights to privacy but a child to be controlled.

My ex was abusive, but even he didn't bother checking my phone.

My husband doesn’t check my phone and I don’t check his. We don’t even have each other’s passcodes.

John sounds like a controlling arse.

Nope. If you trust your partner, checking their phone regularly is not a Thing.
I don't think my husband has ever checked mine. He does know the password and I will ask him to look to read a text if it pings while I'm driving.
If he wanted to get someone's phone number off my mobile, he would ask before he even looking in my handbag

Please let your little boy have the birthday he wants.
I work in childcare and at this age painting is loved by all and great thing for them to do. Children love to be busy and create something to be proud.
You sound like an ace mum just stand your ground!
Maybe the kids could paint John??

I think I would let her know that he is checking her messages on a ipad.

Actually she needs to either have a second phone he knows nothing about or communicate by voice call - not so east for him to trace.

WOW! I'm glad the party was a roaring success. John sounds like a ticking time bomb. I wouldn't distance yourself, she's going to need her friends sooner or later.

Whoops my phone didn't load all

I’d tell her about the iPad messages. Mine is synced and we all use the iPad a lot so sometimes I’m having a bath and messaging and dp laughs at what comes through but they pop up- he can hardly not look. We don’t check phones. In theory we know each other’s passwords but we never bother to remember as we can just ask.
You should say jokingly to jane oh I’ll buy you a secret burner phone he doesn’t know about. And see if her eyes light up at the idea.

Glad you party was a success. I would make an effort to stay in touch with your friend as I think now you stood up to him over your party he may now try to cause issues between you and your friend.

My DH checks my phone but because I tend to leave it around on silent and someone will message him to tell him to get me to get my phone. He would never check for any other reason

Well she's either entirely in thrall to him and agrees to him having full control of her life, or she's in a very abusive controlling relationship.

No way does my husband check my phone, EVER. Nor do I check his. He would let me - I have access to his phone, know his password and sometimes he asks me to read his latest emails while he's driving so I can answer them for him. But I don't need to (and neither does he need to check mine).

VERY abnormal and seriously creepy - especially because her phone is synced to his iPad so he can track her every communication!!
Ugh.

My DH doesn't even check his own phone! But that aside messages are personal, even short and casual ones. Checking phones shows a severe lack of trust. It might be normal in dysfunctional relationships but not in normal ones. People either don't trust their partner because they have broken their trust in the past, they suspect they are up to something or they are up to something themselves.

If you can, can you create the illusion of distancing yourself from her i.e.not messaging etc but speaking to her face to face instead?

Clearly she does know that this is an issue because otherwise she wouldn’t have felt the need to tell you that John had written the message about the football and his childhood etc. In fact her telling you might even have been a way for her to let you know subtly that all is not well in her relationship.

He sounds like a slime ball, but tbh this has become so much her new normal,and because there are now children in the picture it’s a lot harder for her to just leave. But she can, and even if she can’t, she still needs support. Because one day she may be able to leave him.

I would also be asking her why, even if she thinks it’s normal, John feels the need to check her phone.

Jane says “nine out of ten” husbands check their wives’ phones daily or at least weekly, and there is nothing sinister about it.

My dad can be insecure and jealous. Even he doesn't check my mum's messages, certainly not routinely. He'll read out a message if she asks him to for whatever reason but a routine check? Nope. She's really far gone if she believes John's BS that it's normal.

"I think she is motivated by kind intentions"

No she's a control freak who doesn't like taking no for an answer. I'd tell her where to go and that if she finds painting unsuitable for a boys party, then her son doesn't have to accept the invitation.

She was rude in the first place but to go behind your back in an attempt to change your child's party....WOW!

This sounds very very worrying. I think you should definitely tell her about John being able to see her messages. How do you know this? Tell her. That is absolutely awful.

And arrange to meet up with her on her own to ask her about her life. It all sounds really awful. Classic controlling behaviour. How often do you get to see her on her own?

hewhinessoshewines check out my user name, thread has moved on quite a bit

She's a full time mum? Somehow in the context of this thread I am not surprised. Has she ever worked since she's been with him? If she did, did it end right after child #1?

Yep, controlling relationship. It's not normal to keep checking your partner's phone, and certainly not to have a synch feature your partner's unaware of.

He's checking to see that she's not deleting messages after sending. He probably does this with email as well.

He won't approve of you as a friend for her because you are a woman without a male owner - and now that you've successfully stood up to him he will like you even less and will probably try to undermine your friendship.

@BobTheDuvet thank you for sharing your experience and I’m so glad you’re out of that situation now

It does sound like perhaps that is behind Jane’s whole “I’m deleting this email, don’t reply” thing (why else would you say that?)

But they’re the gooiest, schmoopiest couple on Facebook!! each time she gave birth he would write a long heartfelt essay, praising her to the skies & thanking her for the “giving me such a strong son / beautiful daughter.”

My head is reeling a bit because on Friday I was stressing about the party - “why are they trying to footballise the party” and now i’m wondering whether i’ve been missing red flags all along.

Thanks for all the insightful answers, it’s really helpful. I’ll try to answer all the questions.

Sorry to ask this in-thread but is there a way to quote someone’s question, when you are answering it? When you’re on your phone. Or would you just have to type it out

So glad you stuck to your guns OP, the party sounds like it was a roaring success I bet it's one your little boy will remember for many years.

The '9 out of 10' statistic is bollocks. In over 20 years with my husband we've never checked one another's phones or any correspondence. We both know each other's codes to access the phone, but would never need to. And the syncing thing is wrong. I do it with my kids' iPads, there is absolutely no need to have this setup with a spouse (unless it's a business account that you're both involved in)

Also, OP, disregard everything you read on FB. It is not indicative of real life in the slightest.

In my experience, if a woman is in a relationship like this and can't/won't see it, it's very difficult to change her mind. Impossible even. I agree with pp that there are a lot of red flags for this relationship. But I'd be inclined to suggest that you try to stay close to her at least on the basis that if and when she figures it out, you're still in the picture and she knows she can go to you.

For the record (and to add to your stats), DH and I know each other's passwords and neither of us would have any problem with the other one picking up the others phone and using it or spotting messages. There's even one WhatsApp thread that DH likes me to watch because he gets too bored telling me the batshit crazy things that happen on there, but neither of us is checking up on the other. And even when I do take a look at the crazy thread, I don't read any of the others (except, if has been known to happen, I see messages from a family member/friend and the most recent message (which is visible) makes it clear said person has been trying to get info from DH and he has been ignoring them. Because he's bloody useless. So then I read those then give him a hard time for not replying! )