"Will not be a Prince or Princess"

[cjt110]

"The child will come behind his or her father Prince Harry in the line of succession, bumping his uncle, the Duke of York, further down the line into eighth place.

However the child will not be given the title of prince or princess unless the Queen steps into change the rules. Instead a son would be styled the Earl of Dumbarton, while a daughter would be Lady (first name) Mountbatten-Windsor."

Can anyone explain why this is the case. Charlotte and George both hold Prince/ss titles - I assume as they are further up the line of succession.

But Beatrice and Eugenie are Princesses... Is that because prior to Charlotte and George being born, when they were born they were higher up the line of succession?

Another bloody thread! Why not just add to one of the millions of others?!

And yes, I know I can hide it

Because this is about the line of succession... Not the pregnancy.

I've never really understood the formalities of the titles.

I think that is a really interesting question - no idea what the answer is, sorry! It seems odd that eugenie and Beatrice get the princess title when they are so much lower down the line of succession.

I think Andrew insisted on the royal titles for his girls, they weren't automatically entitled.

Lots of info on Wikipedia explaining this.

Don’t know but I’d be interested to hear...

I may have this wrong, but I think I’ve understood it as only the children of the heir apparent would have titles I.e. those in direct succession. Which is why Edward & Anne’s children aren’t Prince/Princess. But Andrew pestered the Queen to get his girls the title Princess.

I think that as Charles is still not monarch, William & Kate’s children wouldn’t by default be Prince/Princess, but the Queen arranged for it to be so as they will be directly in line as their father should one day succeed the throne. But this would not apply for Harry’s children.

Maybe Fergie will be along in a bit to explain properly, I reckon she’s a mumsnetter in private

Thought it was the other way round - and Anne turned down the titles for Zara and Peter?

piggy thats how i understood it from the news
Meghan and Harrys child will "just" be the great grandchild of the monarch, whilst William and Kates are in the direct line of succession.
The queen could change it and give them titles (as she did for william and Kates) but she is not expected to given Charles wanting to stream line the family.

I believe Annes aren't as she rejected titles for her children.

Only children and male line descended grandchildren (ie not Anne's children) of a monarch are entitled to the title of Prince/Princess. George, Charlotte and Louis are the only ones in their generation that will have the title as they're in the direct line of succession.

Children of the queen’s son’s automatically get titles, but it doesn’t carry on after that.

Even closer to the line of succession titles aren’t always automatic, William’s children only all have titles because the queen altered it, really only George should be a prince.

Prince Andrew insisted on his daughters being given the title of I remember correctly.

I think Edward's children were entitled to be called Prince and Princess but they chose to have them be Lady/Viscount instead.

Anne's children could have been Lady/Viscount (not Prince/Princess as Anne is daughter not son of the monarch) but she thought it was better for them not to have titles.

In letters patent gazetted on 11 December 1917 the King restricted the style of "Royal Highness" and the titular dignity of "Prince (or Princess) of Great Britain and Ireland" to the children of the Sovereign, the children of the sons of the Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest living son of a Prince of Wales.[72] The letters patent also stated that "the titles of Royal Highness, Highness or Serene Highness, and the titular dignity of Prince and Princess shall cease except those titles already granted and remaining unrevoked".

That's from Wikipedia, the King in question being George V.
I'd like to see it changed to 'eldest living child' rather than son. Perhaps it will be, although it's not of pressing importance seeing that the first three in line are all male.

Children of the queen’s son’s automatically get titles, but it doesn’t carry on after that

So if Queenie pops her clogs before this baby is born (unlikely) and Charles becomes king, he/she will be a Prince(ss)?

Must have been Andrew insisting rather than Anne turning the titles down, as Edward and Soohie’s children are mere Lords and Ladies. What a pillock.

It wasn't him insisting, Beatrice and Eugenie were entitled to be Princesses because Andrew is theQueen's son.

Jeremy vine is discussing this

I’ve never understood why Edward is only an Earl when his brothers are Dukes? What’s that about?

I suppose other royals like Princess Alexandra and Prince Michael were grandchildren of a monarch when they were born? but their children would have titles but not Prince/Princess.

So it seems you need to be in direct lines of succession, or have a pestering Dad!

Thanks MNetters ;-) Glad it wasn't just me who was curious.

I think if Charles was king then this baby would be entitled as the grandchild of the monarch born to a male child of the monarch to be prince or princess. But baby will be the great grandchild of the monarch.

When Beatrice and Eugenie were born they were grandchildren of the monarch.

Zara and Peter weren’t entitled because they were children of a daughter of the monarch as opposed to children of the son of a monarch.

Edward turned the title down for his kids.

So what will be interesting if this kid isn’t a prince/princess what would happen if they have a second kid in a few years and by then Charles is king? You’d have an older sibling who isn’t a prince/princess and a younger one who could be.

Oc the new crop of grand children only George is entitled to be a Prince. The queen released a letter patent so that Charlotte and then Louis would also bear the title.

She might do the same for Harry’s child. Lady Louise and Viscount Severn are entitled to a title as she is the child of the son of a sovereign, but their parents turned it down. Beatrice and Eugenia also have titles because they are daughters of the son of a sovereign. If Charles were King the Cambridge’s and Sussex children would have automatically got the titles HRH.

Prince Edward will be Duke of Edinburgh after Prince Phillip dies
So Edward and Sophie will be Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh