"Will not be a Prince or Princess"

[cjt110]

"The child will come behind his or her father Prince Harry in the line of succession, bumping his uncle, the Duke of York, further down the line into eighth place.

However the child will not be given the title of prince or princess unless the Queen steps into change the rules. Instead a son would be styled the Earl of Dumbarton, while a daughter would be Lady (first name) Mountbatten-Windsor."

Can anyone explain why this is the case. Charlotte and George both hold Prince/ss titles - I assume as they are further up the line of succession.

But Beatrice and Eugenie are Princesses... Is that because prior to Charlotte and George being born, when they were born they were higher up the line of succession?

No one is making any sense. The Queen's grandchildren aren't given the title 'Prince/Princess'....except for Eugenie, Beatrice, Harry and William. So actually all the grandchildren have the titles except Anne's and Edward's children, so HALF the grandchildren do and half don't....Then the Queen's great-grandchildren can't hold the titles...except Charlotte and Louis and George...and maybe Harry's children will because when the Queen dies they will grandchildren of the new monarch - just like William, Harry, Eugenie and Beatrice are of the current monarch....but maybe they won't.....It sounds like a free for all. No rules at all, just whatever the Queen feels like bestowing.

Edward and his family still come before Anne and her family because the change in law wasn't backdated, it only applied to Prince George onwards. So Charlotte comes before Louis.

@OhLookHeKickedTheBall

The Queen is the Duke of Lancaster. That's automatically conferred on the monarch (it provides income in a similar way to the Cornwall Dutchy). Whereas currently the Cornwall Dutchy is only automatic for the eldest son and heir apparent of the monarch. For example the Queen wasn't the Duke (or Duchess) of Cornwall when her father became King, where as William will automatically be HRH Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge when Charles ascends the throne.

Undercoverbanana, the changing of the law regarding primogeniture is not retrospective. So Andrew and his offspring and then Edward et al come before Anne.

Undercover I think it's:
Charles
William
George
Charlotte
Louis
Andrew
Beatrice
Eugenie
Edward
James
Louise
Anne
Peter (or did he forfeit because he married a catholic?)
Zara
Mia
Lena
Lord Linley
Linley's children
Danny dyer

No one is making any sense. The Queen's grandchildren aren't given the title 'Prince/Princess'....except for Eugenie, Beatrice, Harry and William. So actually all the grandchildren have the titles except Anne's and Edward's children, so HALF the grandchildren do and half don't....Then the Queen's great-grandchildren can't hold the titles...except Charlotte and Louis and George...and maybe Harry's children will because when the Queen dies they will grandchildren of the new monarch - just like William, Harry, Eugenie and Beatrice are of the current monarch....but maybe they won't.....It sounds like a free for all. No rules at all, just whatever the Queen feels like bestowing.*

The only reason it seems complicated is because Louse and James are an anomoly

Automatically entitled grandchildren- William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise and James.

Not automatically entitled grandchildren - Peter and Zara.

Automatically entitled great-grandchild - George

The Queen decided to allow all of William's children to save any issues because at the time if Charlotte had been born first she'd have been Lady Windsor, but a younger brother would have been HRH Prince.

As all of Charles' grandchildren will be entitled to HRH Prince/ss (all from the male line) the Queen will likely allow Harry's children to be styled as such from birth.

Edward's children use lesser titles at their parents choice. Similar to the fact that Camilla is HRH The Princess of Wales, but doesn't use it. It doesn't change their automatic legal entitlement to the title.

Thank you - I got confused - Peter is Anne’s son and Linley is Margaret’s son! That makes sense.

What’s up with Peter being a Catholic? Are we beheading them again now?

Gazelda

Spot on, except Savannah and Isla Philips come before Zara.

It’s
Charles
William
George
Charlotte
Louis
Harry
Baby Sussex
Andrew
Beatrice
Eugenie
Edward
Louise
James
Anne
Peter Phillips
Savannah Phillips
Isla Phillips
Zara
Mia
Zara’s new baby

Autumn Phillips converted to CofE before her marriage so Peter's place in the line isn't affected.

Gazelda. - haha!!! I had to look up Danny Dyer because I’d never heard of him!!!!! He’s just a soap bloke, right? 😂

Edward will become Duke of Edinburgh when the current one dies . He and Sophie accepted titles for their children but not HRH as they recognised that they would have to earn a living. Anne refused a title for Mark and their children so that they could have the chance to live “ ordinary lives “. Andrew insisted that his daughters be HRH. I also read that he wants Jack to be given a title or their children will be Miss / Master. He really is a pompous ass ( I know someone who has met him a couple of times ).

It seems strange that constitutionally being the Great-Grandchild of a monarch means you are not automatically a Prince or Princess but if you were born after the current monarch dies you would be the Grandchild of the new monarch, so you could be Prince or Princess. So H&M's first child would be a Lord or Viscount Duke or something but if they had another child after the Queen passes, that child could be a Prince or princess. Weird and illogical

Obviously James is before Louise 🙄

Is it spelt Louis - we all thought it was Lewis?

Cousins are Louise and Louis. Good luck at Christmas!!!!

Andrew insisted on it. Charles' other siblings didn't. Anne's kids have no title on her insistence. The Queen's sister's kids don't have it either. Nor did her first cousins.
Andrew was apparently pissed off the BBC didn't do wall to wall royal wedding coverage. He's an arse.

sollyfromsurrey

It was changed by George V to limit the number of HRH Prince/ss there was when monarchs had so many children. He had 6 children and his father 10 so the number of great-grandchildren from that would be huge!

Thanks for that lalala

It seems complicated because some who were entitled to have a royal title refused it. The monarch’s sons’ children are entitled to use HRH if they so wish. Edward chose not to use it for his kids but Charles and Andrew did.

Gazelda

Andrew didn't have to insist on it. Why won't people accept that. His daughter's were automatically entitled to it.

Anne's children have no titles as she's a woman. Even the Queen's children didn't automatically have titles - her father had to issue LP's.

Her sister's children have titles in accordance with the ones given to her brother in law.

All of the Queen's first cousins are titled as grandchildren of the monarch (Princess Alexandra, Prince Richard etc). Only Princess Mary's children are not HRH Prince/ss.

So H&M's first child would be a Lord or Viscount Duke or something but if they had another child after the Queen passes, that child could be a Prince or princess. Weird and illogical

Someone further down said the first child would be "upgraded" so that all were the same,

Andrew must absolutely curse Edward and Sophie's decision with Louise and James. Until that decision was made it didn't occur to anyone that Beatrice and Eugenie wouldn't be Princesses.

Anne's DC have no title as she is female. Mark Phillips was offered a title on marriage which would have overcome this, but Anne and Mark turned it down.

Andrew's DC have the title because he is the male child of the Monarch. He could have chosen to style his princesses differently (as per Edward and Sophie), but that was never going to happen.

Edward's DC were entitled to be called HRH Prince/Princess, but he and Sophie had the good sense to realise that it might impede them in their life, and therefore don't use it. I always wonder what will happen if Louise/James decided they would quite like to be a princess/prince - could they just start using the title at a later date, or has that opportunity gone now?

My understanding is that Harry and Meghan's children will automatically become Prince/Princess when Charles is King, as they will be the GC of the Monarch.

Edward
Louise
James

Isn't James still before Louise as they were born before the change to the laws of succession?