"Will not be a Prince or Princess"

[cjt110]

"The child will come behind his or her father Prince Harry in the line of succession, bumping his uncle, the Duke of York, further down the line into eighth place.

However the child will not be given the title of prince or princess unless the Queen steps into change the rules. Instead a son would be styled the Earl of Dumbarton, while a daughter would be Lady (first name) Mountbatten-Windsor."

Can anyone explain why this is the case. Charlotte and George both hold Prince/ss titles - I assume as they are further up the line of succession.

But Beatrice and Eugenie are Princesses... Is that because prior to Charlotte and George being born, when they were born they were higher up the line of succession?

Thank you for the explanation about HRH. I remember Diana being really upset about losing it in the divorce and I never really understood why that bothered her so much.

Prior to the letters patent of 1917, there was also an honorific His/Her Highness without the Royal bit. That was used by great grandchildren of the monarch in the male line. For example, at birth the Queen's father who became George VI was His Highness Prince Albert.

serenmoons post brings up another exception. So for a time Philip was an HRH without being a prince, and after her divorce, Diana had the title of princess but was not an HRH.

@Butterymuffin I don't think so - all the Cambridges have travelled together when they've gone on their overseas trips.

there are lots of exceptions and anomalies

This is because royal styles and titles are entirely within the gift of the monarch.

Because HMQ has been doing things much the same way for such a long time, I think it's all too easy to think there is a single unchanging best and proper practice. But there really isn't anything other than a general set of principles plus whatever the monarch wants to do.

Too much reading up on titles can do your head in - I was just looking at all the titles the DoE has had in his 97 years. He's really had the most extraordinary reversals of fortune in his life, and married extremely well considering!

This is because royal styles and titles are entirely within the gift of the monarch.

Exactly. Which is why there is a school of thought that the Queen did actually deprive Edward's children of royal titles. The announcement said that it was her wish that they be styled as children of an earl. The monarch's will is the source of royal titles.

As you will see with Eugine should she have children her title will die with her and not be passed on to children, much like what will happen with Harry's.

Not quite, the title 'Duke of York' is often given to the ruler's second son, but it wouldn't make sense to give it to Harry without giving his uncle a different title, even if they did that, Sarah Ferguson would still be 'Duchess of York' so you would end up with Andrew being Duke of somewhere to suit his ego, Harry being HRH the Duke of York, Meghan would be HRH The Duchess of York and Fergie would still be the duchess of York.

So, I doubt it will go to Harry but might go to Louis, his children (assuming William is King) would then be HRH Prince/ess something, of York

and after her divorce, Diana had the title of princess but was not an HRH.

Not quite, Diana was NEVER Princess Diana, she was HRH Diana, Princess of Wales.

It's a bit like the other thread running on Mrs Hisname His surname.

If William and Harry had not been given Duke titles then their spouses would be Princess William of Wales and Princess Henry of Wales. Well actually they are that, as well as Duchesses.

I think the loosing on not getting an HRH is the way the royals publicly show who they are pissed off with, Wallace Simpson didn't get an HRH.

When the then princess Elizabeth married she became HRH The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh because she was already a princess in her own right.

@sash sorry don't think I explained it well enough. I ment Eugine's children won't get HRH titles. She will be the last HRH in the branch of the family tree. The same as Harry's children will be the last HRH's in that branch of the tree. They will drop down to Lady/Lord/Viscount/Earl and so forth.