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Original poster

My DD is confused and a bit upset by gender fluid teacher

354 replies

CosmicCanary · 17/09/2018 18:12

DD is 11 and in her second full week at high school.
We were going through her home work today and part of it is drama.
She needs to learn the meaning of various words such as reflection, preformance spontaneous etc.
DD loves drama and is very enthusiastic about it now being a weekly lesson. I asked if she was enjoying it and she said yes but she is confused.
She said she does not know what to call her teacher.
I said Ms, Mr or Mrs last name.
DD said its not like that. The teacher has said they can call her Ms Mr or Dr as they are gender fluid and their pronoun is they.

I said well call them by any of those then if they dont mind. DD said its hard as the teacher is a Ms/she/woman and although she is trying hard to remember the they pronoun she (DD) keeps getting it wrong.

DD is a very kind and does not want to upset her teacher as she likes her/him/they very much. DD is also scared as she does not want to get in to trouble as, and I quote "misgendering is a crime".

I have reassured DD that her teacher has said its fine to call her Ms Mr or Dr so she has nothing to be scared of and wont upset the teacher.

In private I am very angry. My DD has enough to deal with and worry about just starting high school and now she has to deal with a teachers chosen identity and the worry that if she slips up because despite the short hair and Mr reference her teacher is a woman.

This is not trans bashing before that gets thrown at me I am just upset my DD has to deal with this when it only benefits the teacher and causes distress to a child.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 17/09/2018 18:47

A drama teacher wants to be called Dr? What a narcissist

As opposed to a science teacher wanting to call themselves Dr? If they have a PhD, they’ve earned it.

IAmLurkacus · 17/09/2018 18:47

Check the website? What is the teacher referred to as on there?

BertrandRussell · 17/09/2018 18:48

I would most definitely want to know where she got ”misgendering is a crime” from.

But apart from that, I can’t see a problem. If the teacher is happy with Ms, Mr or Dr, then she can’t really go wrong, can she? She’s quite unlikely to need to use a 3rd person pronoun in the teacher’s hearing. And most of us are used to using “they” anyway.

gamerwidow · 17/09/2018 18:48

To be fair it’s not really pressure though is it. The teacher has asked to be called they if the kids use a pronoun. There’s nothing to suggest they’ll do anything other than correct them if they use the wrong word. If she’d been dishing out detentions or shouting at the kids everytime one of them got it wrong that would be different but from what the OP says this isn’t the case. The kids will get the hang of it in the end, it’s not going to hurt anyone.

Bimgy85 · 17/09/2018 18:49

That will confuse the poor child she probably doesn't know much about 'transgender' people yet.

RitaFairclough · 17/09/2018 18:49

I think using they and their as a singular is a crime. “They is very nice.”

AssassinatedBeauty · 17/09/2018 18:50

It is pressure if the kid thinks it's a crime to misgender!

gamerwidow · 17/09/2018 18:50

Everyone dismissing it as a non issue, clearly it has been made an issue

Has it though or is the OPs daughter just a sensitive child who worries about getting things wrong. I have one of these and she often gets things out of proportion and I need to double check with the teacher what really happened.

PurpleDaisies · 17/09/2018 18:50

I think using they and their as a singular is a crime. “They is very nice.”

I agree. It’s not exactly high level grammar to realise it should be “they are very nice”.

rosablue · 17/09/2018 18:51

I can see it's going to lead to all sorts of problems - it's one thing using they when talking about somebody when you don't know their sex (was the doctor nice? Yes they were very nice) but when you're talking about Dr Drama (for want of a better name for the OP's dd's drama teacher - when you know they present outwardly as a female, and you have had a lifetime of conditioning to create a mental model that automatically attaches 'she' to people that are female, you do it without thinking - it's really difficult not to.

I also wonder how it goes down in the English department - back in the day we would have got in trouble and lost marks for using 'they' when we should have used he or she - wonder if that is still the case or if they get to use they throughout their work?

YeTalkShiteHen · 17/09/2018 18:51

Has it though or is the OPs daughter just a sensitive child who worries about getting things wrong. I have one of these and she often gets things out of proportion and I need to double check with the teacher what really happened

It’s definitely worth it, because clearly it hasn’t been explained in a way which wouldn’t upset a sensitive child.

Original poster
CosmicCanary · 17/09/2018 18:52

This is such a non issue.

I agree as an adult this is a none issue.
However as an 11 yo in their first few weeks of navigating high school it has caused distress and upset. Children are not there to validate the adult teacher.

We are just about to eat and its DDs turn to do the pots with me so I will have a chat with her about where she heard misgendering is a crime.

OP posts:
CaligulaBlushed · 17/09/2018 18:52

Putting pressure on a child?? Christ alive, it's not a far cry from simply remembering to use a teacher's married name when you've always known them by their maiden name. You're making waaaay to much of this, the teacher is not unreasonable.

Now I understand your dd is upset, but the way to deal with that is not to go telling her that what's been asked of her is hugely unreasonable or a massively high-stakes issue that there are big penalties for if you mess up. You may feel like that but that's just you looking for the easiest way to soothe your dd.

The very best thing you can do, and what will stand her in the very best stead in the future, is to explain that some people make requests of you and when we all respect each other we try to do our best to abide by those requests. But also when that person respects you back they understand that we don't get it right every time, and that's fine. No big deal.

And seriously, tell her definitively that she won't be going to prison for accidental misgendering. Someone's been fanning the flames of playground drama to give her that idea.

YeTalkShiteHen · 17/09/2018 18:53

Children are not there to validate the adult teacher

I could not agree with this more.

Hope your DD is ok Cosmic

AssassinatedBeauty · 17/09/2018 18:55

"Children are not there to validate the adult teacher."

Absolutely.

Children should not be worried about getting names/pronouns/titles wrong, for fear of imagined punishments or upsetting their teacher. It gets in the way of learning and building good relationships.

PurpleDaisies · 17/09/2018 18:56

Is it common for gender fluid people to be happy to be called either ms or mr? That seems quite unusual to me.

WendyTheWestie · 17/09/2018 18:56

*Bimgy85

That will confuse the poor child she probably doesn't know much about 'transgender' people yet.*

Seems like the perfect opportunity to learn..

Original poster
CosmicCanary · 17/09/2018 18:57

Now I understand your dd is upset, but the way to deal with that is not to go telling her that what's been asked of her is hugely unreasonable or a massively high-stakes issue that there are big penalties for if you mess up. You may feel like that but that's just you looking for the easiest way to soothe your dd.

And where in in my posts have I said or done any of those things?

I was very blaise about it and told DD its fine/nothing to worry about/teacher is happy with either.

OP posts:
shadypines · 17/09/2018 18:57

If , after a chat with you, this situation appears to cause one second more of anxiety/doubt in your DD I would ring the school for clarification.

I would only be satisfied with speaking to Head of Year, Deputy Head or Head on this one, not a teacher on same grade or admin staff so you have it 'from the horse's mouth'. If you are still in any doubt after speaking say that you would like an email/letter going out to parents (which your DD can then read). You and your DD def should not be taking any shit from the school as to 'watch your step on what you say' he, she , they , it whatever, as long as your DD is respectful. Kids this age have enough to worry about without all this.

SponsoredFred · 17/09/2018 18:58

How about calling them 'ya fookin cunt'; as i was called on my first day of teacher placement Grin

CaligulaBlushed · 17/09/2018 18:59

I didn't say you had Cosmic, I said that would be what not to do Confused You see for me that might be my first reaction.

Bimgy85 · 17/09/2018 19:00

@WendyTheWestie but what if some parents aren't comfortable about their children learning about transgender people yet? It's not exactly seen as a fact of life or birds and the bees scenario. It's not science. It's some people's beliefs. Surely they would need consent to teach the children all about this?

poopsqueak · 17/09/2018 19:00

Urgh I couldn't roll my eyes harder at the teacher asking the kids to call them a variety of titles to enforce their 'gender fluid-edness' only leads to confusion for the children. Pick a title, stick with it.

I would be worried about her worrying that misgendering is a crime. It isn't.

abacucat · 17/09/2018 19:03

they are very nice The grammar indicates that this phrase refers to more then one person

TheFallenMadonna · 17/09/2018 19:04

The context makes is pretty clear though.