My DD is confused and a bit upset by gender fluid teacher

[CosmicCanary]

DD is 11 and in her second full week at high school.
We were going through her home work today and part of it is drama.
She needs to learn the meaning of various words such as reflection, preformance spontaneous etc.
DD loves drama and is very enthusiastic about it now being a weekly lesson. I asked if she was enjoying it and she said yes but she is confused.
She said she does not know what to call her teacher.
I said Ms, Mr or Mrs last name.
DD said its not like that. The teacher has said they can call her Ms Mr or Dr as they are gender fluid and their pronoun is they.

I said well call them by any of those then if they dont mind. DD said its hard as the teacher is a Ms/she/woman and although she is trying hard to remember the they pronoun she (DD) keeps getting it wrong.

DD is a very kind and does not want to upset her teacher as she likes her/him/they very much. DD is also scared as she does not want to get in to trouble as, and I quote "misgendering is a crime".

I have reassured DD that her teacher has said its fine to call her Ms Mr or Dr so she has nothing to be scared of and wont upset the teacher.

In private I am very angry. My DD has enough to deal with and worry about just starting high school and now she has to deal with a teachers chosen identity and the worry that if she slips up because despite the short hair and Mr reference her teacher is a woman.

This is not trans bashing before that gets thrown at me I am just upset my DD has to deal with this when it only benefits the teacher and causes distress to a child.

But when it comes to people's feelings about who they are, I teach them to be understanding and just accept people for who they are.

I do too. Unless that person’s feelings involve being harmful or deliberately oppressing people.

Teaching them to blindly accept things just because someone feels that way is beyond irresponsible.

Teaching them not to exclude people because of their sexuality, or their race, their faith, their nationality or if they have a disability. Absolutely.

Teaching them (as autistic children btw this is important) that you can actually become the opposite sex, biologically, is a lie. Which I won’t do.

We can't really compare a convicted rapist/paedophile with an innocent teacher who is gender fluid and hasn't committed a crime

It's not a question of comparing them.

It's a case of acknowledging that an unquestioning acceptance of 'I am the gender I say I am at this precise point in time, regardless of biology/physiology/personal history, and to dispute that is an act of bigotry' is precisely the situation that leads to rapists with penises who say 'I self-ID as a woman' being put into female prisons where they are able to commit sexual assaults against female inmates.

Excuse me riding on the coat tails of another poster. I'm in back-to-back meetings but wanted to say (once again) I fully agree with @Perfectly1mperfect

The hatred and scaremongering by some posters is depressing. I'm checking out.

Update:

I contacted the school and spoke to the head of year who I know as she taught my DS's.
I said that DD2 had drama yesterday and came home a bit confused and was upset by a comment a friend had made about misgendering.
HOY sighed and said the school has an inclusive policy when it comes to students and teachers. I said sorry you misunderstand I am not calling to complain about the teacher I am concerned about rumours/misinformation between students regarding the teacher.
HOY apologised and said last week and yesterday she has had quite a number of calls from parents regarding the drama teacher and the fact they are gender fluid.

I have agreed to meet with the HOY tomorrow morning to discuss the misgendering comment.
I will not be complaining about the teacher but I do think the school need to make sure that the teacher is discussing their identity because its
a) required/needed/pupils are asking questions
b) explained simply to limit confusion

I am trying to do this in a sensitive way which I hope to get across in the meeting tomorrow.

DCs are with their dad today so I have discussed it with him in case DD has questions or is still worried/confused.
He agrees that the teacher could have simplified things and his response to misgendering = a crime was WTF

Glad you had a positive phone call with the HOY, hopefully the meeting tomorrow means that all confusion (well as much as possible) and rumours are cleared up and your DD and the teacher can get on with classes!

I would get your Dd just to use “DR” and practise saying “Dr surname” so it becomes natural for her.

And tell her that I regularly called my teachers “Mum” that might make her feel a bit better about making mistakes.

beenandgoneandbackagain
All the staff with PhDs at my school get Dr Last Name and it's never caused issues. They get yes miss/Yes sir in the register but that's it.

I think there was an easier way for the teacher to handle things and they've made it more of an issue and drama than it needs to be. I'm glad that the OP has said she's readonably sure the misgendering is a crime didn't come from the school.
Hopefully a talk with school can help put the OP and her child at ease (and maybe the teacher will be told to pick a title for school and stick with it. The kids can't be expected to be mindreaders and realise that because it's Thursday Ms Smith is Mr Smith but next Tuesday they'll be a M&s Smith again. If they don't mind either title then they clearly don't mind a child potentially calling them their male title on a female day so why the fuss about pronouns? It all seems for the adult' s benefit here)

I should say, regardless of my own gender critical views, gender identity tends to end up being a non issue in schools most of the time 'so and so is called Tim'. Kids call Tim Tim. School sort out separate sex logistics. There's no need for drama.

I’m pleasedto hear that a lot of parents have made contact over this

I don't usually use the title Dr. I refer to myself as Ms. Other people sometimes refer to me as Dr. Sometimes kids ask me which it is and I say both are fine, but I say Ms. More often I'm called Mrs or Miss. Also fine. This teacher, female, said she was fine with Ms, which although IME an uncommon title in schools, is presumably one acceptable to GC feminists for a woman. As I would have thought was Dr, although some seem to be demanding to see her degree certificate for that...
The misgendering thing has not come from the teacher at all. Yes, the teacher made a bit of a meal over the title thing, but way more of a meal is being made over it now.

Really sorry that someone else's existence has inconvenienced you so much by them being really fucking annoying to you. Maybe they should just hide indoors and refuse to engage with the public?

What's next, you scweam and scweam until you go blue?
This narcissistic self-obsession is completely out of control.

But try to remember that you're talking about a real actual person who, regardless of what you think, has gone through a level of stress and confusion about who they are and how to present to the world. That's a difficulty that the vast majority of people will never have to experience

You must be fucking joking. Most people go through this, these people whanging on about being gender-fluid are not in any way a minority.

Oh my post has been deleted.

Have no idea why.

This is like American facebook groups. Adult women can't have a bloody conversation here anymore.

Glad the HOY is talking to you about it.

I would demand reassurance that accidental correct sexing (the use of “she”) would not result in any sanctions against my child and I would request that the drama teacher pick one title to go by. Any of the three would be fine, it is the inconsistency and confusion that the “choice” of title throws up, not that they want an unusual/unconventional title that would bother me.

There is no justification in making children walk on eggshells because an adult needs external soothing due to discomfort arising from their own disordered thinking. It is not a child’s job to make a “safe space” for an adult and if said adult is so emotionally fragile that they cannot function without the collusion of all children in their delusion, then I’m afraid a secondary school is the last place they should be (I probably would say that to the HOY at this stage though).

What else you could say would be something sensible instead of utter bollocks

Good contribution.

There is nothing in this that suggests the teacher is policing the language. Nothing to suggest the teacher is emotionally fragile and the students need to walk on eggshells.

There is nothing in this that suggests the teacher is policing the language. Nothing to suggest the teacher is emotionally fragile and the students need to walk on eggshells.

They stated their preferred pronouns, that is defacto policing language. We don’t choose our pronouns, other people use the pronoun they think fits our observable sex. Flipping the relational way in which that language is constructed, so that the user needs “permission” to use a correct pronoun is making people walk on eggshells, whether that is the intention of the teacher or not.

OK-your ds is confused. She's at an age where....

Best typo ever!

No, you seem to want to bury your head in the sand about what is actually happening in the name of being kind and accepting.

Do you think a rapist belongs in a women's prison if they identity as female? Do you think it's unreasonable to be furious that 4 women have been sexually assaulted in a women's prison by a rapist and paedophile identifying as a woman?

You have helped me crystallise my thoughts on this issue. I had Started to be influenced by all the anti trans threads. I feel confident now that each person should be taken individually and not judged by another’s actions because of a commonality.

We are talking about a drama teacher working legitimately in a school who for whatever reason wants to express themselves as gender fluid and not feel constrained by labelling. You have linked her to a male rapist who has deliberately gone through legal processes to call himself female in order to be able to target vulnerable trapped women as well as children. They have absolutely FUCK ALL in common.

This teacher is doing no harm whatsoever beyond causing some confusion. They’ve stated they don’t mind what they’re called and introduced a recognised gender neutral pronoun. They weren’t harsh or threatening about it.
The ops friend was the one to cause the upset.

It’s like saying being a priest is wrong because some priests gained that position to abuse children.
There are people who feel trapped in the wrong body or don’t labels. There are also rapists and offenders who will use and abuse whatever loopholes they can to gain access to their victims. One does not cause the other and the loopholes need to be closed. Not the whole idea of people expressing their feelings or confusion about gender shut down.
You’ve gone way way too far and are preaching hatred.

You say ‘this shit should not belong in schools’ is a hateful message to send out. It is in schools whether you say it should be or not. It is in schools for many of the pupils; do you hate them for feeling like that? Perhaps they need support, understanding,recognition, validity. I’m not advocating medical intervention for children, but tolerance and understanding, all round.

It’s hatred that does not belong in schools. OP I hope your daughter manages to get her head round this easily as my ds did with his teacher.

Well said @0hCrepe

You should get out more if your very angry about this. It seems slightly precious on your behalf.

They have absolutely FUCK ALL in common

In terms of sexual deviancy aye, you’re right.

In terms of the rights they’d use to do what they do (the teacher not being a deviant obviously) they have plenty in common.

It all comes under trans rights, and that’s what is so fucking scary!

Yes and like I said it’s the loopholes that need to be closed.

I don’t see anyone trying to close the loopholes, beyond feminists that is, do you?

For anyone still reading the thread I had a meeting with HOY today.

The school have had a large number of phone calls from parents regarding the drama teacher.
A few were complaints from parents but the majority were around the title confusion and what genderfluid means. Seems my DD is not the only child to be a bit confused. Most are y7 so 11 yo.

The teacher is new to the school and new to teaching this is their first stand alone teaching position.
The HOY reiterated the schools policy on being inclusive which I agreed with however I did ask why the teachers identity was told to the children and that 3 choices of title were unnecessary which is was my DD and it seems others have become confused by.
The HOY agreed with me and could not give a reason as to why the teacher has told her class her identity or gave 3 choices. She explained that she will be speaking to the teacher but that this has to be done correctly as they do not want them to feel discriminated against.
The suggestion to use Dr teacher only seemed the easiest option.

As for this misgendering comment which I explained came from a pupil and not the teacher the HOY said she could not be sure of that. I explained it happened at lunch with only pupils and that it was a friend who's auntie had said it. HOY said that other parents have brought it up too and it had not come from a pupil.

She would not say anymore on the subject but going forward the teacher will have one title and children will not be spoken/told off if they mistakenly use the wrong address or pronoun.

I have spoken to DDs dad who said she asked him about being genderfluid today which he has explained to her as I did yesterday ( he had already googled it). She also asked if people call auntie whatsit (his sister) Dr and does she like it.

I hope that my next week DD has forgotten all about it and just gets on with the lesson without overthinking what to call the teacher. She seems to have accepted mistakes/misgendering is not a crime so I am happy about that.

I’m glad the HOY was receptive and that the confusion is going to be cleared up.

Most of all I’m glad your DD isn’t scared or worried any more!

Sensible outcome although it sounds likw the a school is shit scarwed of a lawsuit.

'Dr drama - you're confusing the kids. Stick to Dr drama in future.'