Absolutely raging - need to vent!!

[Cleanerrates]

14 year DD went away bank holiday weekend to the seaside with her dad, his gf and her 10 month old baby brother, she's seemed a little upset and withdrawn since coming back and tonight she finally told me why.
Two reasons - firstly for 2 nights out of the 3 DD was made to babysit her brother so her dad and gf could go out for dinner and drinks, apparently they were only at a bar a couple of minutes walk away so told DD to call if baby woke up and left her with a KFC for dinner both nights - ok some might say at 14 DD is old enough to babysit but they were all supposed to be on a holiday together.
Second reason I'm so raging I've sank a bottle of red in 20 minutes trying to keep calm. They all shared a room, DD was on a sofa bed, she heard/saw her dad and his gf having sex TWICE!!! First time she said she was facing the wall drifting off to sleep and heard them having sex, second time she was facing out into the room half woke up with a cramp in her leg wanted to turn over but saw they were having sex and shut her eyes and didn't dare move as she didn't want them to know she saw anything.... I'm fuming!!! DD said they came back from both nights out extremely drunk so don't know if they were both so pissed they weren't with it but what the actual fuck!!

DD has made me promise not to say anything to her dad as she doesn't want them to know that she saw/heard anything cos she's so embarrassed, upset and she spends every second weekend with them so doesn't want any awkwardness, obviously i wanna rip his head off but want to respect my DDs wishes. DH thinks I need to say something regardless of DD asking not to as he thinks it's too serious to just leave.

When I read “raging” in a brass title usually I eye roll

In this scenario I actually think raging is an understatement. I would be beside myself

Take her phone off her for a bit in case he tried to get in contact and if he does reply from your phone and tell him not to.

I wouldn't do this. It happened a week ago plus it will feel like a punishment to her.

I'm really concerned at the suggestions that this doesn't need reporting.

What types of sexual abuse should we be reporting then, and which sexual abuse should we not be reporting??

Why the actual fuck would she pussy foot around the Dad and not just tell him the truth TeenTimesTwo ? He had sex in a room with his 14 year old, he needs to be called out on that. He needs to be told it is totally unacceptable and that he has deeply upset his daughter, why the hell would you not do that?

If you do all this "see what he says" when you subtly raise it - what's the desired outcome?

He already knows she's upset. He already knows that she had to do babysitting. He already knows he had sex two times in front of her.

He obviously doesn't think he did anything wrong otherwise he wouldn't have got up and done it again.

He must be monumentally stupid if he cannot work out that his children might have heard or seen him having sex.

Presumably when he hears that you are all, like normal people, utterly distraught about this betrayal of her trust, then he'll start saying that he'll never do it again. But what good is that?

I completely see that you are in a very tricky position with your dd as she has asked for this not to be communicated. But isn't this because she feels ashamed and embarrassed and as if she now could harm her relationship with her father by revealing what he did? Why should she take the shame on herself, which she does by keeping silent? I don't know the answer but I feel somehow that she should be livid not ashamed, and that part of the abuse of her trust is this implicit pressure to not talk about it or confront him with his shitty behaviour.

Poor you and poor her.

Can I be clear here @Cleanerrates if your daughter goes into school this week and tells any teacher this will be a straight social services referral. It will then come out that you already new and have not acted to protect your daughter. Or she may tell a friend who tells another friend or who tells their parent...either way this can easily come to the attention of any adult who would ring SS.

I don't want to scare you my lovely but I would act first. Also regarding school she may still be upset, teachers may notice and start to ask her if she wants to talk. Anything that will affect her in school should come from you first, so I would be tempted to speak to her form tutor. Everything will be confidential to a point but because this is a safeguarding issue a referral will go to social services and then it is out if your hands. SS will contact your ex and his partner. It will be embarrassing for everyone but it is very serious. SS will want to talk to your daughter and they will most likely arrange for mediation between them until everything is resolved.

I would reassure your daughter that she did the right thing at the time and afterwards by telling you. Your job is to protect her. Reassure her you are on her side and that she does not have to go to stay with them until this is resolved.

Good luck, don't be scared as SS will be there to support you and your daughter

I am not sure why anybody needs to report @AcrossthePond... they are not saying the impossible. I was around 14 when I awoke suddenly to grunts and muffled sounds... yes that was my parents. I am usually a very deep sleeper, so in hindsight I am (charitably) inclined to think that my parents (one of them was drunk) had felt, er, safe because of that? We were poor - like, can't eat three meals a day poor - and we all slept in the same room and I remember only one instance of this, so that's some consolation I guess...

I managed to go back to sleep after tightly screwing my eyes shut and chanting numbers back... yes I did know about sex but come on, still remember forst the confusion and then the huge embarrassment and even some fear (the sounds were alarming, to say the least!)...TBF I already was being raised in a dysfunctional family, so perhaps I wasn't that traumatised... but make no mistake, I did find it disgusting, and this was my own parents! It didn't scar me (my dad beating my mom in broad daylight did more harm) but I really could have done without those sounds in my memories, thank you very much.

OP, you definetely need to blast your ex over this. While the sex issue is embarassing and creepy, I actually view leaving a 14 year old in charge of a 10 month old baby as the more serious issue.

Jesus - I don't have sex if my teenager is in the house, let alone the same room!

She is plenty old enough to vote with her feet - no overnights, no more holidays unless she is guaranteed her own room and no more babysitting. That was not a holiday for her!

And I agree he should be told. Not necessarily through SS or NSPCC but told directly. You are the adult, OP. DD is still a child and you will do what's best for her. End of.

Again, let me stress this - my earlier post is about not needing to report Acrossthepond. But do I think the OP's ex and his gf were just bumbling idiots and should not be blamed. Hell no! What kind of an asshole is this man, unable to keep it in his pants for a few nights when his teenaged daughter is staying with him in the same room?

And no, I am not going to minimise the role of the GF here, didn't any of them have any sense... then again, if they were under influence, we can assume that all common sense had left the room... in which case, it is a huge safeguarding issue, what if they had done something stupid like light a candle or something, in their inebriated state?

Whatever it is, OP, you need to make a big fuss about this - as a PP said, no need to go all guns blazing, but more of a slow and steady burn - do not let anyone tell you that you are over reacting.

Oh my Goodness this is just awful. It seems that exposing a child to sex is a form of abuse and that makes sense why she is feeling so embarrassed and a lot of shame about it. If she had been abused in any other way she would probably be saying all the same things “don’t tell dad, just say I’m ill and can’t manage this weekend”. However if it was a clearer cut case I’m sure you would feel like you had to report it.

If it were me (not in any way telling you what to do!) I would say to her firmly that you can’t keep it to yourself because what her dad did was wrong. Explain that she shouldn’t have to feel embarrassed or shameful and that it is in NO WAY her fault and you are so glad she came to you about it. She will probably be annoyed and fall out with you but I believe she wouldn’t have told you if she didn’t want you to help and protect her. She is traumatised from it and probably needs someone to speak to, this was her very first experience of sex and she will have a lot of confusing feelings about it.

Not sure about reporting to ss, I do agree with other posters that it would be helping to protect your child and what they did (twice) was completely inappropriate. Being drunk is not an excuse, and it’s certainly not an excuse twice. Your little girl is too big to be sharing a room with them, even for a week holiday. Reporting will open a can of worms with your ex but maybe it’s one that needs to be opened.

Hugs to all of the family, can’t imagine how you must all be feeling. Made me tear up thinking of her stepdad crying, he sounds ace.

No pussyfooting around him, what he did was wrong, knowingly had sex when there was his 14 year old dd in the room TWICE!! As a result she has been badly affected by it, and she is embarrassed. He needs to be told what he did was totally unacceptable, that it will not happen again. That there are to be separate sleeping arrangements for overnight. I would take her lead, if she does not want to see her dad, support her.

This post hits home with me. When I told my mother about a similar scenario I saw her become a new level of upset. What she did in speaking to him changed nothing, she couldn't help me and I knew it was so painful for her too. So as things progressively got worse I never mentioned it. I was miserable. For years. Truly genuinely miserable.
Your daughter needs you to take real action here. She should feel confident that this kind of thing will Never happen again.
Please consider taking serious action. Not just a chat with her father.

Jesus. So many of you want the dad hung drawn and quartered.

Exposing a 14 year old child to your sexual activity is bloody disgusting. They were all sharing a room and she had nowhere else to go. She couldn't get up and walk out without alerting them. That poor girl has been forced to lie in her bed and listen to her own father nailing his GF, knowing there is absolutely no way of escaping the situation. All she could do was stay put. She was forced to listen to things she should NEVER have been exposed to, and the person exposing her is supposed to put her safety and wellbeing first - always. She no doubt became more upset, embarrassed and disturbed by the second, feeling utterly trapped until they'd 'finished'. And she had to continue the holiday with them afterwards, trying to 'brave face' her way through it until she could get home to her mum - to safety. Ever so sorry, but that is horrifying.

There is no foundation in that dad knew she could hear or see anything he was doing and more than likely thought she was asleep. I bet he is mortified when he is told.

There is every foundation. They were sharing a bedroom. If you are vulgar enough to have sex while sharing a room with somebody else, the likelihood is they will hear/see it. Being drunk is no excuse. Assuming his children were asleep is no excuse.

I think the damage he's done to his daughter and their relationship takes precedence over any mortification he will feel. He and his GF have done an incredibly beastly thing, and they did it knowing full well two children were in the room with them. I find it sickening. I really, really do. I don't understand how anybody can attempt to minimise the gravity of what these two people have done.

Bloody hell this is awful

How is your dd today?

fucks sake, that is disgusting. If they wanted to have sex they should have booked seperate rooms or go and shagged in the toilet. Thats completely abusive. What a total headfuck for a child.

The babysitting thing is bad enough, and blatantly the main reason they took her. I think I would be going apeshit and telling him and her that he has blown it and she will not be staying overnight again, or even not going anymore

I am really shocked and surprised that some people think this is a bit of a non issue.. this isn't a case of the girl hearing through the wall and being able to stick her headphones on or walking into a room to a glimpse of a bare ass and running back out again. This poor girl has stated to her mum that she feels embarrassed.. what she will actually be feeling from being trapped and forced to listen to a prolonged sex session is scared, confused, ashamed, disgusted , angry and hurt! This was not a one off drunken mistake.. this was done very deliberately on 2 occasions! Accidental is being overheard from another room while trying to be discreet.. why is this ok because it was her father?? If it was an uncle and his gf would it be different??? Why? I don't think his intent is relevant here.. he obviously didn't think she would see or hear but that does not change the fact that on 2 occasions he chose to have sex in the presence of his 14 year old daughter!!! Asleep or not this is without a doubt a safeguarding issue. This girl does not get to decide whether or not she will be upset or scarred by this. Her choice was removed when this situation was forced upon her by her father. People who are minimising this need to seriously think about why they consider this to be acceptable behaviour!!!

So sorry for your daughter, good luck in dealing with this

That is beyond grim, OP! Your poor dd! At least she knows you have her back and will fight her corner. Wtf was her dad and his gf thinking?!? Poor girl, basically forced to listen unable to leave, it’s hideous. And leaving her babysitting while they had a nice trip? Fuck that. I’d have reacted with much less dignity than you have, hats off to you for your handling of it so far. Definitely a conversation needs to be had with these two. Good luck 🍀

Safeguarding red flag and illegal.

They could get 10 years for that, OK probably not, that's the maximum.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/11

Hope DD is a little better today OP

Still lost for words on a father doing that

Others may take it much more seriously but in this day and age, at 14 sex is a known quantity, Doesn't matter how known it is, exposing children to sexual contact (even just by viewing it) is abuse.

My half sister lost 2 children because they repeatedly witnessed people engaging in sexual contact in their home (and I don't just mean stumbling in on mum/dad scenario) She failed to prevent it happening, failed to change her behaviour and recently lost them permanently. The three she had after the fact are all with her, however she is subject to very close scrutiny by SS.

How anyone can think this man's behaviour (and the girlfriend's) is acceptable and appropriate is beyond belief. I find it so depressing that some posters are so completely lacing in social awareness to realise it is. simply. not. on.

Disgusting. Your DD was used and shown a complete lack of disrespect.

Your DD will always remember this. And if you choose not to speak out on her behalf then one day she will grow older and will look back on this and wonder why.

I would send him the link above and tell him you are getting advice on what you should be doing next. Your daughter will not be staying with them this weekend.

Also stated your daughter is not an unpaid babysitter.

The fact that they left their 10 month old with his/her 14 year old sibling while they got drunk is totally unacceptable and shows at that level a lack of judgment. I question if he could be a good father.

IF OP's ex did it knowingly and intentionally when in a unaltered state of mind, then yes, that abuse. He was fully aware that his daughter was in the SHARED room that he booked for their holiday. Ergo, he knowingly and intentionally had sex in front of her.

He was drunk, but not too drunk that he couldn't have sex.

Stop excusing child abuse.