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Original poster

Absolutely raging - need to vent!!

535 replies

Cleanerrates · 02/09/2018 21:41

14 year DD went away bank holiday weekend to the seaside with her dad, his gf and her 10 month old baby brother, she's seemed a little upset and withdrawn since coming back and tonight she finally told me why.
Two reasons - firstly for 2 nights out of the 3 DD was made to babysit her brother so her dad and gf could go out for dinner and drinks, apparently they were only at a bar a couple of minutes walk away so told DD to call if baby woke up and left her with a KFC for dinner both nights - ok some might say at 14 DD is old enough to babysit but they were all supposed to be on a holiday together.
Second reason I'm so raging I've sank a bottle of red in 20 minutes trying to keep calm. They all shared a room, DD was on a sofa bed, she heard/saw her dad and his gf having sex TWICE!!! First time she said she was facing the wall drifting off to sleep and heard them having sex, second time she was facing out into the room half woke up with a cramp in her leg wanted to turn over but saw they were having sex and shut her eyes and didn't dare move as she didn't want them to know she saw anything.... I'm fuming!!! DD said they came back from both nights out extremely drunk so don't know if they were both so pissed they weren't with it but what the actual fuck!!

DD has made me promise not to say anything to her dad as she doesn't want them to know that she saw/heard anything cos she's so embarrassed, upset and she spends every second weekend with them so doesn't want any awkwardness, obviously i wanna rip his head off but want to respect my DDs wishes. DH thinks I need to say something regardless of DD asking not to as he thinks it's too serious to just leave.

OP posts:
Beeziekn33ze · 02/09/2018 23:30

Poor DD, she may not be keen to even stay with them after this, let alone go away with them. Awful situation for both her and you to deal with.

londonista · 02/09/2018 23:31

BastardKitty you made a long post offering the OP advice. Do you have professional training for that advice or are you just saying "what you think?". It wasn't clear from your post.

bastardkitty · 02/09/2018 23:32

Yes.

Notasunnybunny · 02/09/2018 23:33

Sirimione16- just the sort of nonsense minimising I was referring to. I’m actually very open with my dc about sex, it is indeed part of a healthy relationship and I make this clear. However to make your child whiteness this or put them in a situation where they could even be at risk of having to see it first hand is completely and utterly wrong. There is no excuse.

Opensesame1 · 02/09/2018 23:33

This is horrifying. Can I just say I witness this as an adult. I shared a room with a friend on holiday when I woke during the night to witness her having sex with her boyfriend. Even as an adult I reacted in the exact same way.. I froze and panicked and didn't move a muscle and had to lay there and hear them at it. It was genuinely traumatising and took me a long time to stop feeling uncomfortable around her so god knows how your poor daughter feels!!! No one is questioning the intent- he obviously didn't intend for her to witness this but what is a safeguarding issue here is the effect it will have had on your daughter. Whether or not he knew she could waken he chose to have sex in a room with his 14 year old daughter present and that is disgusting behaviour!!!

londonista · 02/09/2018 23:33

To which?

And has MN removed the objectionable post yet?

Uncreative · 02/09/2018 23:34

@MissTerryShopper

I am in the UK. That was a typo. I know that sex in a public place is criminal but I would have thought that this would not be considered public. I am not aware of any law that says children witnessing a parent have sex is a criminal act. Please let me know if I am wrong (sincerely - I am not an expert)

In my opinion (as a lay person with experience of child safeguarding) and based purely on the OP with no extra information, I would say this does not count as sexual abuse of a minor. There is nothing to suggest that it was a deliberate act. It could be argued as child neglect (and I would support that argument). But with a view to the long term effect on the OP’s DD, I think it should be treated in such away so as to minimise her embarrassment whilst still ensuring it never happens again. That means the ex needs to know what was seen and heard, the babysitting and the drinking need to be addressed.

To brand it criminal risks the DD feeling responsible for her father being labeled a sex offender. Imagine the potential consequences of that on a child who has been described as being hysterical over this situation already.

MissTerryShopper · 02/09/2018 23:35

Posted too soon, sorry. A child walking into a room where people are having sex is completely different to a couple being completely negligent and deliberately taking part in a sexual act in front of a child. Sex Offender Register stuff at the very least.

OP, using your daughter as a babysitter is crap and a shame for her but just shows they were being selfish and unreasonable. BUT what this couple have done is subjected your child to abuse.

I feel so sorry for you all and send a hug.

ButtonMoonLoon · 02/09/2018 23:36

I work in Child Protection.
For the avoidanc of doubt- this IS a safeguarding issue.
In your position, I would definitely be reporting this and refusing him acccess until due process has been followed. It’s important you do this; if it’s disclosed to anyone else and you are found not to have reported it then your own parenting may be scrutinised too.
I think you’ve done exactly the right thing in keeping your daughter close and helping her to feel safe. In time, when she is settled bough for another conversation, (tomorrow ideally) she needs to know that what they did was not okay, and that the safety and well-being of her younger sibling needs to be assured as well as that of her own.

Godowneasy · 02/09/2018 23:38

I'm not sure what the point is in talking to NCPPC or SSD is at this point? You are very clear that you are appalled at their behaviour, and you are quite capable of safe guarding your dd from further abusive/ inappropriate behaviour. Talk to your ex and his partner first (having explained to your dd the reasons why you have to talk to them). If you're not satisfied with their responses, and their honest acccknowledgement and apology to DD, then is the time to involve NSPPC or SSD.

Ensure that dd is never used as as an unwitting baby sitter again, and check any future holiday and sleeping arrangements carefully before she goes away with them again

Notasunnybunny · 02/09/2018 23:41

Opensesame- exactly, how I would have felt in your shoes even as an adult, this poor girl. the professional help is so important as they will know how best to help the dd deal with what she has seen so it doesn’t follow her around like some nightmare childhood memory. I’m not suggesting the ex and his gf did this on purpose but sadly the trauma is real regardless of the intent. Several people who have the experience I lack saying contact social services so that sounds appropriate, although NSPCC also seem a good idea. Do they have a 24 hour help line should the op find herself unable to sleep tonight?

CherryCherryCherry · 02/09/2018 23:45

Hi OP. That's crap. Agree with all that's been said before about you needing to speak to ex about it. Just one thing to add-just not to yet angry infront of dd about it just stay calm. Maybe she shouldn't stay overnight as if they can be thoughtless maybe they're noisy anyway and now she'll be more aware. I was embarrassed when I heard my mum and her boyfriend at it in the next bedroom and I was in my 20s and they weren't even being loud!

What if either dc had been unwell and both if the adults were drunk? Sorry he's been an arse to say the least. At least she felt able to tell you be thankful for that as it would have been awful for you to have found out years later. Flowers

MissTerryShopper · 02/09/2018 23:46

Uncreative, yes I see your point. But it must have been a deliberate act, if they knew they were all in one room. At the least they were negligent as to whether the DD was able to witness it.
I agree that to go down the criminal route is extreme if they were both pissed. I think OP should be speaking to her Ex and saying about what happened but making it very clear that DD was extremely traumatised and from now on OP will be the decision maker on visits etc being guided by how DD feels.
He basically needs to be contrite, ashamed and be more vigilant on the conditions under which he uses his tackle.

Uncreative · 02/09/2018 23:47

The NSPCC could be useful in two ways. First, to advice the OP whether to report it or deal with it herself without referring the matter to police or social services. Secondly, for the OP’s DD to talk to - she may find the anonymity at the other end of the telephone to be more comfortable than taking to her mother face to face.

This is an issue that needs to be addressed. I don’t think that anyone on here doesn’t consider this a major safeguarding concern. The real question is how to best to handle it for the OP’s DD.

OP - someone up thread mentioned this happened to them as an adult with a friend and described how they felt. It might help your daughter to process her response if she knew that her reaction is ‘normal’.

PickAChew · 02/09/2018 23:48

@Uncreative www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-abuse/

Second entry in the definitions of non contact abuse

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2018 23:49

Ex did say when he dropped her back “oh I don’t think she feels too good because she’s not been right all holiday”

Hardly surprising is it, after such appalling behaviour? Hmm

A small point, though ... given his mindset of using and disrespecting her, I doubt exH will have appreciated having his holiday affected by what he might have thought was just "sulking". So before saying anything, I'd want to do a bit more gentle probing to find out if anything else has gone on

MyOtherProfile · 02/09/2018 23:53

Oh no your poor girl. I'm so shocked that a dad would do this in front of his child.

MaryDollNesbitt · 02/09/2018 23:54

Utterly fucking vile. They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves!

I wouldn't trust him with DD ever again, especially overnight. Angry Poor girl.

Menolly · 02/09/2018 23:55

As others have said you have to speak to SS, having sex where they knew she might see is a massive safeguarding concern and if it were to come out later on that you knew and did nothing it would cause you problems as well.

Walking in on parents can happen but no adult should be having sex knowing there is a child in the room, even drunk. My parents are alcoholics, they did a lot of terrible things but even they never deliberately had sex in front of me, I walked in on them once but in fairness even slaughtered they tried to cover themselves up the second they heard the door open!

As for the babysitting, my sister used to babysit my kids when she was 14, but on nights I had asked 'please will you babysit' and paid her for it, on nights I'd invited her to visit, or when I took her on holiday it was to spend time with her, asking her to watch the kids for me would be really mean.

PanamaPattie · 02/09/2018 23:55

Ex has no idea he has done something wrong. Too busy drinking, shagging and enjoying his holiday to worry about poor DD.

Notasunnybunny · 02/09/2018 23:56

pickachew- that’s pretty clear isn’t it? it most definitely falls into the category of sexual abuse.
OP- if you can bare to please keep us updated please do, in particular once you speak to someone, I have a feeling this thread will be someone’s lifeline in a similar moment of confusion in the future.

LilQueenie · 02/09/2018 23:56

Based on the fact she is so shaken I would say you need to confront your ex and his girlfriend. sounds like they wanted your dd on holiday as an unpaid babysitter.

Quantumblue · 03/09/2018 00:00

So upsetting to heAr about this. Your poor dd. I think it would help to completely separate he two issues. The baby sitting is unfair and annoying and may make dd question why they invited her. The sex is completely abusive.

She should not be overnight with them again.

louise5754 · 03/09/2018 00:00

The sex aside. What a horrible time your DD had sat in a hotel alone when they should have all been out together. Would they leave her with the baby at home?

They must have planned all along to go out both nights.

Who could possible be in the mood for sex with children in the same room?

Awful. They should be ashamed!!

Aeroflotgirl · 03/09/2018 00:03

This is awful, your poor dd, she sounds really shaken up and shocked. I would be supporting her in her decision not to see her dad. YOu do need to tell her that you have to speak to him, you cannot keep it to yourself. He has to know what he did was wholy inappropriate, and I think bordering on abusive. God what a crap weekend your dd has had Sad.

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