Absolutely raging - need to vent!!

[Cleanerrates]

14 year DD went away bank holiday weekend to the seaside with her dad, his gf and her 10 month old baby brother, she's seemed a little upset and withdrawn since coming back and tonight she finally told me why.
Two reasons - firstly for 2 nights out of the 3 DD was made to babysit her brother so her dad and gf could go out for dinner and drinks, apparently they were only at a bar a couple of minutes walk away so told DD to call if baby woke up and left her with a KFC for dinner both nights - ok some might say at 14 DD is old enough to babysit but they were all supposed to be on a holiday together.
Second reason I'm so raging I've sank a bottle of red in 20 minutes trying to keep calm. They all shared a room, DD was on a sofa bed, she heard/saw her dad and his gf having sex TWICE!!! First time she said she was facing the wall drifting off to sleep and heard them having sex, second time she was facing out into the room half woke up with a cramp in her leg wanted to turn over but saw they were having sex and shut her eyes and didn't dare move as she didn't want them to know she saw anything.... I'm fuming!!! DD said they came back from both nights out extremely drunk so don't know if they were both so pissed they weren't with it but what the actual fuck!!

DD has made me promise not to say anything to her dad as she doesn't want them to know that she saw/heard anything cos she's so embarrassed, upset and she spends every second weekend with them so doesn't want any awkwardness, obviously i wanna rip his head off but want to respect my DDs wishes. DH thinks I need to say something regardless of DD asking not to as he thinks it's too serious to just leave.

What a shite parent he is. He wouldn't be seeing her ever again. And I'd be calling the police on him and her for that and get them both charged for it.

Have you sought professional advice OP? If it's anonymous then surely there's literally nothing to lose?

I haven't read the whole thread, but what I have read is so upsetting. Your poor DD.

I can't actually find the words. I'm so angry on your behalf.

I think the line to take with your ex is that he and his gf should not have done anything with DD in the room any differently from if it were daytime and the lights were on.

But they did, they had (at least) a snog and a fumble under the covers. They shouldn't have done that and they have upset her. Teenagers have fertile imaginations and she knows what (she believes) she saw. They shouldn't try to minimise that. Or else they did shag - the results are the same really.

It's tough being the kid who moves from house to house where half siblings live with both their parents all the time.

Also he can't try to pin this on you, he knows she was upset, he told you so when he dropped her home.

Their stories (ex and gf) don't even seem to match each other.

Ex's version: He said they were about 3 hours this time and admitted they were both again a little drunk,

Gf says: I also wasn’t drunk

So someone isn't being entirely honest here.

She won’t be in any trouble with her dad at all and has nothing to worry about.

That is victim blaming.

OP Maybe talk to your dd about getting support at school, they will have experience of safeguarding.

His reaction to me is a 'oh shit I'm caught', IF it was 'only' a cuddle a normal reaction would to be mortified that your child thought it was sex.

Sending good wishes to you and dd.

I think that the fact that he's making it all about him and his feelings says it all. Your poor daughter

I'm not sure I'd contact the police, although I can see why it's suggested. I genuinely don't think from what the op has written, that this was in any way malicious.

I think they just got into the holiday spirit, thought great free baby sitter, let's go out on the piss on our own, then came back and thought she was asleep, so shagged (or whatever) and are now in a blind panic realising she wasn't and what has actually occurred and just how bad I looks , it was selfishnesses and lack of care for the children.

They are continuing to be selfish, because they are still focusing on themselves, there is no thought of the daughter and her distress at their actions.

I doubt she will ever want to go on holiday with them again and I doubt she will be happy to stay with them if they see her as nothing more than a convenient baby sitter and not someone they wish to spend time with.

Hoping it all goes ok tonight and have some type of resolution (including no victim blaming/gaslighting). Some very good pints made by PP - what your DD saw/heard was clearly enough to traumatise her.

I had thought of Bill Clinton and your EH. Bill categorically denied having sex with that woman (Monica). But she did keep the semen stained dress. There’s a lot more to “sex” than actual intercourse.

So a 14 year old child who has always had a fantastic relationship with her father decides to come home from a holiday lying about her dad and his GF:

• Dumping her with babysitting their 10 month old INFANT, twice.
• Going out and getting pissed, twice.
• Engaging in sexual activity that she heard (twice) and saw (once) while sharing a hotel room with them.

I call bullshit.

I'd trust the word of the person who was in the room SOBER and evidently traumatised by what occurred - any day of the week. Both his and the GF's reactions sound like classic gaslighting to me. Their responses are like psychological fucking warfare.

Oh, silly DD is confused! Of course we weren't doing X, Y or Z. We would never do that. She's got the wrong end of the stick. Please assure her we're not angry with her. Please tell her she won't be in any trouble with us. Please let us come over and correct her. We have to reassure her that she's misunderstood the situation and has nothing to worry about.

They'll stick to those sort of party lines to grind everybody into submission and recondition what DD thinks she witnessed by sewing the seeds of doubt. Something happened in that room and whatever that something may be, it's left your DD remarkably upset, withdrawn and anxious. Children do not become upset, withdrawn and anxious for no reason. Your daughter sounds like she absolutely adores her father. Now she can't stomach the thought of taking his calls, responding to his messages or spending time with him. She's climbing tearfully into bed with her mum to watch movies, wanting to stay close to somebody she feels SAFE with overnight - somebody who will PROTECT her. I wonder why.

Did they have sex? I don't know. None of us do. We weren't there. But your DD has heard and seen two drunk people doing something inappropriate in front of her on two separate occasions, and the effects cannot and should not be minimised. OP, I think what you need to hold on to tightly is the memory of your 14 year old daughter wanting to cuddle up to you in your bed on Sunday night (it was Sunday, yes?) - of her wanting to stay close to her mum after opening up about whatever the hell happened in that hotel room. That is the one thing that struck me the hardest in all of this. She latched onto you like a little girl needing her safety blanket in the dark. To me, that's very telling

I wouldn't allow a conversation between your daughter and her Dad unless I had been given some external advice and support. This is so important for your daughters mental health and how she deals with sexual relationships in the future. If she feels unsupported or ganged up on it could be devastating for her.

I've read as much as I could. I don't think they intended her any harm but I think they've been absolutely shit to her and terrible parenting on holiday.

If no prior issues disclosed by your DD and she's always been quite relaxed and happy around her dad and his gf then I think they genuinely did think she was asleep and were total idiots rather than actually wilfully exposing her.

Plenty of kids walk in on parents having sex at some point and it's embarrassing for both parties, as do plenty of kids hear their parents having sex - I remember putting a pillow over my head to shut it out as a teen and I also remember they'd always put their head round the door to check I was asleep first and I'd pretend I was scared of getting in trouble! But tiny accommodation they'd have never had sex I guess and they thought they were sneaky! Anyhow I went into care but that was not a reason why!

I think it's harder as it's not her mum and dad but dad and his gf.

The leaving her to babysit with a KFC when they've taken her on holiday actually seems more unkind (though easier for a teenager to not feel so grossed out about)

I think jumping to accusations of sexual abuse will be far more traumatic for a teenage girl to cope with about her father, and whilst she is not to blame involving the police or social services may actually leave her feeling guilty herself.

If of course I have missed much deeper red flags, ignore me!

Anyone who thinks having sex in the same room as their teenage child is a good idea, whether they are asleep or not, needs their head checking.

They are liars, and shit ones at that. I would call the police so they can see how serious it is. They don't seem to understand or even care. Just wanted to use her as a free babysitter. Poor kid.

Yes I’ve sought professional advice. Lots to take in and think about but I’ve been advised to not focus on finding out if the sex actually happened or not, not dismissing it or playing it down but ex is never to going to admit it, DD believes what she saw so the important thing in this is make sure DD doesn’t feel disbelieved, whatever she did see was enough to make her breakdown traumatised and not wanting to see her father for the foreseeable future, this wouldn’t have happened if some of it if not all of it was true.
Also been advised to not have the meeting with ex and gf tonight. DD would have been at my parents and this could lead to her feeling anxious, upset and worrying about what was being said, this is her home so she need to be here feeling secure and safe.... I didn’t even think it that way and that makes me feel like shit! Maybe all us adults are guilty of being selfish and wanting to have this out rather then 100% focus being on DD and everything happening on her terms and in her time. So tonight will be cancelled.
Thank you to everyone on here for all your advice, I felt completely out of my depth and you’ve all helped immensely.

You're handling this amazingly well OP.

You believing her is going to make such a positive difference on her whole life. I know that seems like a massive statement (no pressure!) but it's really true. The fact you're handling this so well now is going to pay dividends in the future.

How did your ex react when you told him tonight was cancelled?

It sounds like you have had excellent advice. Honestly, it's a horrible situation and any parent would feel out of their depth. I'm not surprised your DD told you because she has been hurt and let down and she obviously trusts you very much, which is a credit to you as a parent. You know where the focus needs to be now. Well done to you and all the best to your daughter. Although it would be best if she hadn't been put in this situation, you are providing her with an excellent role model for how to deal with people with poor boundaries and judgment. This is an important life lesson.

Good job OP. Totally agree whether or not they DTD it was clearly enough to upset your DD and make her uncomfortable. Her Dad will have to accept that and wait for her to want to see him, you're doing a stellar job of supporting your DD, well done.

That’s really helpful advice you’ve received op. Don’t beat yourself up you have been supporting your dd there’s no blueprint for this kind of situation so it’s good to get advice. Baby steps op focus on dd and breathe- whether dd’s Father is upset is not your concern don’t give him a second thought now.

Thanks op and thanks for updating, that seems good advice, making it about your daughters mental well being.

How do you think they will take the meeting being cancelled? At the moment it doesn't seem that your daughters well being is top of their priorities, if it ever has been.

Well done I’m glad you’ve had professional advice. And I’m glad it agrees with lots of what was said here. Your DD needs to come first no one else matters. Keep her safe and keep talking to her. Maybe speak to school to see if she can be referred to a counsellor to talk through what occurred.

As ex is in contact direct with her I’d be telling him In no uncertain terms that any communications goes through you for now. Your dd doesn’t need the pressure that will no doubt come from him and gf to minimise the whole thing. If he doesn’t agree then block his number on her phone and tell him you’ve blocked it so she doesn’t have to deal with him. If he doesn’t agree or kicks off then you pretty much have your answer I’d say.

I think you’ve done fantastically well OP, you’ve waded through everyone’s opinions on here, taken advice from professionals who know what to do and come out at a course of action which centres DD. You must feel completely out of your depth, anyone would, but you’re doing all the right things, don’t doubt yourself

I didn’t even think it that way and that makes me feel like shit!

You have no reason to feel like shit. This has been thrown at you and you are dealing admirably. This is why professional advice exists. We are not born knowing instinctively how to deal with an issue like this.

I and many other posters have varying degrees of experience in working with children and so will have received varying degrees of safeguarding training as part of these jobs. A lot of it is counter intuitive. For example, you shouldn’t ask her to go over it time and time again, even though instinct might suggest you want to know exactly what happened.

I imagine there is more than a few on here reading as you navigate this and wishing their mum had reacted just like you, many years ago.

Ultimately, you believe her. That will be enough to see her through to the other side of understanding and resolving this.

So glad you got goos advice. Did they have any suggestions for where to go from here?

It must be an enormous relief to have spoken to someone professional and to have been told that your instinct to protect your dd is correct. Don't beat yourself up for 'perceived' mistakes or selfishness, you are in unknown territory here and the best you can do is do your best. Your dd is very lucky to have a mum as supportive as you sound to be. I'm sure with your continued support and help she will come out of the other end of this ok. Her dad needs to get his head around the fact that it all needs to be about her not him right now if he ever hopes to mend this badly broken fence and have any kind of relationship with his daughter in the future. He could start with a sincere apology, not justifying or minimising or making excuses for what happened or telling her how wrong she's got things, just a straight and simple I'm so sorry.