Absolutely raging - need to vent!!

[Cleanerrates]

14 year DD went away bank holiday weekend to the seaside with her dad, his gf and her 10 month old baby brother, she's seemed a little upset and withdrawn since coming back and tonight she finally told me why.
Two reasons - firstly for 2 nights out of the 3 DD was made to babysit her brother so her dad and gf could go out for dinner and drinks, apparently they were only at a bar a couple of minutes walk away so told DD to call if baby woke up and left her with a KFC for dinner both nights - ok some might say at 14 DD is old enough to babysit but they were all supposed to be on a holiday together.
Second reason I'm so raging I've sank a bottle of red in 20 minutes trying to keep calm. They all shared a room, DD was on a sofa bed, she heard/saw her dad and his gf having sex TWICE!!! First time she said she was facing the wall drifting off to sleep and heard them having sex, second time she was facing out into the room half woke up with a cramp in her leg wanted to turn over but saw they were having sex and shut her eyes and didn't dare move as she didn't want them to know she saw anything.... I'm fuming!!! DD said they came back from both nights out extremely drunk so don't know if they were both so pissed they weren't with it but what the actual fuck!!

DD has made me promise not to say anything to her dad as she doesn't want them to know that she saw/heard anything cos she's so embarrassed, upset and she spends every second weekend with them so doesn't want any awkwardness, obviously i wanna rip his head off but want to respect my DDs wishes. DH thinks I need to say something regardless of DD asking not to as he thinks it's too serious to just leave.

I think your DD is mistaken about what she heard and saw

Why? Do you know these people? As adults it's on us to believe children when they appear in distress and tell us something bad happened. Not say they are wrong. Do you always believe the shouting man?

She is 14. She will know the sounds of a kiss and cuddle. She will know what it doesn't sound like. She will know how long it lasts. And if you read the op again. She says she saw them, and squeezed her eyes tight shut so they didn't know she had seen.

If doesn't matter though if penetration actually took place or not. He gave himself away by immediately knowing what the op was talking about. No confusion, he knew immediately and said it was a kiss and a cuddle. So he knew right away to what she was referring to. He's given himself away as a liar by that simple admission.

In addition so did the girlfriend. That baby was sleeping. They were never going to wake it up to go out. So even though the daughter agreed to stay and baby sat, that was clearly always their plan, at least on the second night, they weren't going to all just sit in thr room. They used her as a baby sitter and took advantage of her. She got a bloody kfc for her dinner two of the three nights.

As a pp said, even in their version they come out of it badly. There is no concern being shown for the daughter, no "oh god, I'm horrified that's what she thought she heard, is she ok" it's all shouting screaming, we didn't and oh tell her she's not in trouble for telling on us.

Don't downplay a child's experiences when they are treated badly by a parent, even if that treatment was due to lack of thought and being selfish rather than something malicious. And for me this was about them being selfish and lacking thought.

The message was call nspcc helpline to talk it through and get advice on next steps.
That s not over reacting. it s saying talk to someone trained who can advise op how to address what happened.
Similarly talking to safeguarding lead in confidence.

45. Sexual abuse: involves forcing or enticing a child or young person to take part in sexual activities, not necessarily involving a high level of violence, whether or not the child is aware of what is happening. The activities may involve physical contact, including assault by penetration (for example rape or oral sex) or non-penetrative acts such as masturbation, kissing, rubbing and touching outside of clothing. They may also include non-contact activities, such as involving children in looking at, or in the production of, sexual images, watching sexual activities, encouraging children to behave in sexually inappropriate ways, or grooming a child in preparation for abuse. Sexual abuse can take place online, and technology can be used to facilitate offline abuse. Sexual abuse is not solely perpetrated by adult males. Women can also commit acts of sexual abuse, as can other children. The sexual abuse of children by other children is a specific safeguarding issue in education (see paragraph 48).

The above has been copied and pasted from this document which is a document that every school in the country MUST have regard to. It is mandatory for every member of staff to have training on this every year - most schools will be doing it this week, on inset days before children return after the summer break. You need to be aware that of your dcs mentions this to anyone at school, or a friend who mentions it, staff have a legal duty to follow it up, possibly with a referral to social services. I think you and your dd need to have a very serious conversation about this because it could turn very ugly indeed.
for you - it's a dreadful situation for you.

Melliegrantfirstlady

It isn’t about feelings. I’m extremely impressed op has rightly ignored your nonsense and left you to it.

It’s what you attitude and opinions betray about yourself. If the df and gf have done nothing wrong, why wouldn’t op seek some advice and learn that this is the case so as she can deal with it accordingly.

Why are you advocating so strongly for this couple at the expense of a child? I understand you have had bad experiences with a teenaged girl, but your projection is irresponsible on this occasion.

I would agree mellies posts are irresponsible but they are also not understandable. There are a few like her on here, which. Is concerning if they are parents.

And yes it's a criminal offence to have sex in front of a minor. The ramifications for this couple are horrific as new parents. There is a high chance the daughter will tell a friend, who will tell their parent and social services will be on the scene. It's a huge deal.

For my money though, they'd had a bit to drink, thought she was asleep and either had sex or heavy petting, and have now realised she wasn't asleep and they made a terrible mistake. I doubt it was done under any other intent. I don't know how much intent though changes it. The act and impact is still the same.

And they took advantage of her. They didn't act like parents on a three day holiday with their kids, they bunged her a kfc and left her alone with a ten month old in the room whilst they fucked off to dinner for three hours. They left her two of the three nights as they saw an opportunity for some kid free time.

It really angers me because kids are impotent. They rely on the adults to behave appropriately. They have no power when in the situation and it angers me when a child comes back from a three day trip with a father she had a great relationship with and is now in tears and doesn't wish to speak to him and someone comes on and calls her a fool

Bluntness what do you mean there are a few on here like me?

A few people saying to believe the adult.

What do you think I mean?

@Melliegrantfirstlady

*I am not drunk bluntness wink

I just would not automatically believe a hormonal teenager.*

Blaming the poor girl’s hormones, seriously?!

Mellie there is a reason everyone is disagreeing with you. Can you really not see it.

It's irrelevant if penetration actually took place or not. The father has admitted immediately something was happening in bed. He knew right away to what his child was referring to.

And they left her. With a kfc for dinner two of the three nights, it doesn't matter if she agreed to this, they should not have done it. They were on holiday together, she was not there as their baby sitter. They took advantage of her. We all know as adults you can put a 14 year old in a position they agree,

The girl is distressed due to the way they treated her, that's it. That's what needs to be dealt with. How she was treated and why she's so distressed after a family holiday. Not was there penetration.

Op fwiw I believe your dd and I agree with posters about seeking advice prior to this meeting. Please call nspcc.

And bluntness I am a parent but I wouldn’t take my children’s word as absolute. I’d seek further clarification for myself. And reach a conclusion based on that.

I’m sure they are tripping over themselves to confide in their mum when things go wrong.*

*I’m being deeply sarcastic and feel sorry for your children.

The thing is if a child has no history of wild accusations. No previous relationship issues with a parent, and is in obvious distress and can't bring themselves to talk to the parent then factually something went very wrong on that holiday. Very wrong indeed. The child's feelings are valid. It's not about whether penetration took place or not, that will never be proven or disproven, it's about the fact this child came back deeply distressed after spending three nights with them.

The father and the girlfriends reactions are terrible. Shouting, swearing going berserk. Asking the girl to speak to the girlfriend about whether they had sex or not. Insinuating she should think she is in trouble for telling. Wanting to barrel round to the ops. Showing no concern for the fact the girl is distressed and in tears. No concern for her welfare. No concern for the fact this girl is deeply distressed after spending time with them. This is this mans child. He has shown no concern for her at all

And that says it all.

If this woman is indeed BF is it likely that she was steaming drunk?

It happens. Especially if you've not been drinking much for months and get carried away.

I don’t think the majority of PP have overreacted at all. I’ve read the entire thread and what comes out is the majority are worried about OPs DD and feel they both need help to manage through this.

The father and girlfriend don’t seem concerned about DDs feelings here, they want to talk her into beleivinng nothing happened - which is a dangerous precedent.

I’m not saying that the father and gf intended for DD to watch whatever went on under the covers, but given how deeply uncomfortable she is about the circumstances of the holiday, trying to convince her that it didn’t happen or she is mistaken isn’t a priority.

As others have said, at this point it doesn’t actually matter if penetration took place, what matters is the daughter feels she was used as a babysitter and an unwilling observant of her fathers sexual activity.

The MOST important thing is to give the daughter the ability to deal with her feelings in a healthy way, not just shut the issue down - that’s where NSPCC and the like can help.

Speaking with experience, at that age you need to know someone believes you

Also on BF and being drunk

If she said I didn’t drink at all as I’m BF then I’d understand but to say she only had a few glasses... in a big girl and I was in my bed by 9 after my first “a few glasses” while I was breastfeeding!

Wow just read the thread! please keep listening to your daughter as previous poster stated somethings very wrong gone on om that hol quite obviously. Aswell would keep an eye on her phone just in case her dad has messaged her.

OP do your ex or his gf use Mumsnet?

Jeez all this "he's right" "she's right" misses the point.

What matters is the the dd, age 14, is v upset about whatever has happened. She is a child and needs to be protected.
Whether there was full sex or a bit of a fumble is neither here nor there, either is totally inappropriate in front of a child. Christ, look what it's done to her.

Sounds like a completely shit holiday and dad being very histrionic and self centred.

Please don't feel hurried to resolve this on his terms, go at the speed that is right for you and your dd. But be warned that it may take a long time, and his hysterics will only make things worse.

OP do your ex or his gf use Mumsnet?

This is a good question. However, what will be certainly true is that abusive people will scroll Mumsnet. They will see something in this thread that they relate to and they must somehow minimise and deminish the magnitude of what happened to the op dd on that weekend away.

Why? Because on some level they relate to the behaviour of the df and gf. And if they are in the wrong, then these people defending them must also accept that they have at times behaved in an wholly unacceptable way too.

This is not about a premeditated assault. It is about very poor behaviour choices. It is about ensuring the magnitude is understood. It is about moving forward in the best interests of the child.

It is about child protection.

The adults have caused this situation. All the child did was tell her mum the truth. And as devastating as it all is at the moment, the op should feel immensely proud that in 14 years she has got it right often enough that her daughter still confides.

DD is ok today, thanks to those asking how she is, her dad did text this morning to say have a good first day back at school and that he loved her. I can't take her phone away from her as like any teenager this age she uses it a lot to talk with friends, I don't want her to think she's being punished. I did ask ex not to contact her to talk about what happened and give her some space for the time being.
I have no idea if he or the gf uses mumsnet, of course if they did they would know this thread was me.
The plan is still for ex and gf to come over tonight.

Hi everyone. We have deleted many posts from this thread and removed the poster, so it should be fine now to get back to the business of supporting the OP.