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Absolutely raging - need to vent!!

535 replies

Cleanerrates · 02/09/2018 21:41

14 year DD went away bank holiday weekend to the seaside with her dad, his gf and her 10 month old baby brother, she's seemed a little upset and withdrawn since coming back and tonight she finally told me why.
Two reasons - firstly for 2 nights out of the 3 DD was made to babysit her brother so her dad and gf could go out for dinner and drinks, apparently they were only at a bar a couple of minutes walk away so told DD to call if baby woke up and left her with a KFC for dinner both nights - ok some might say at 14 DD is old enough to babysit but they were all supposed to be on a holiday together.
Second reason I'm so raging I've sank a bottle of red in 20 minutes trying to keep calm. They all shared a room, DD was on a sofa bed, she heard/saw her dad and his gf having sex TWICE!!! First time she said she was facing the wall drifting off to sleep and heard them having sex, second time she was facing out into the room half woke up with a cramp in her leg wanted to turn over but saw they were having sex and shut her eyes and didn't dare move as she didn't want them to know she saw anything.... I'm fuming!!! DD said they came back from both nights out extremely drunk so don't know if they were both so pissed they weren't with it but what the actual fuck!!

DD has made me promise not to say anything to her dad as she doesn't want them to know that she saw/heard anything cos she's so embarrassed, upset and she spends every second weekend with them so doesn't want any awkwardness, obviously i wanna rip his head off but want to respect my DDs wishes. DH thinks I need to say something regardless of DD asking not to as he thinks it's too serious to just leave.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/09/2018 23:13

I wouldn't agree to any meetings at all until you've had a proper chance to discuss this with NSPCC. There's no immediate need for exH to come barrelling over with whatever the latest story is, and given the GF's disturbing remark about "trouble" I certainly wouldn't have her there

There's no reason for anyone to be nailed to the wall, nor even to mention the NSPCC if you just say you're "taking advice", but a professional will be able to speak with DD in a way which avoids the embarrassment of discussing this with her parents - and while it's absolutely natural that you're feeling out of your depth, they certainly won't be

And I'm sorry, but a reasonable and blameless parent would have been horrified and concerned rather than going berserk, yelling and swearing

BewareOfDragons · 03/09/2018 23:15

BendyWendy is spot on: I hope they can see things from her perspective, realise that they have broken her trust and realise the onus is on them to repair the relationship in her time, not theirs. It is important your daughter feels validated and that she did the right thing by telling you. That message needs to come from both parents and I hope her father can tolerate that instead of needing to put his feelings about this onto her.

Her father DOES need to tell his DD that she did the right thing, telling someone. Because she did. SHe was put in a terrible position; unfortunately, it was her father that put her there and he needs to own it.

Her father DOES need to let DD come to terms with in her own time and in her own way. He can't just wish it away and get cross that she's not 'over it' because he's explained/apologised/etc

Good luck, OP. I hope NSPCC has some good advice for how to go forward from here and hold these discussions. Your DD obviously Must come first now.

ButtonMoonLoon · 03/09/2018 23:16

NSPCC 24 hour advice line

08088005000

pallisers · 03/09/2018 23:16

but I'd be mortified if dc walked in as it could look like we were having sex

why is it so hard for people to see the difference between a child walking in on an adult having sex in the adult's own room and an adult chosing to have sex in the same room as their child.

Given there is a he said/she said thing going on here, I'd be inclined to believe the sober one (by his own admission your ex was drunk both nights).

I have 2 teenage daughters. I would believe them. They have sometimes lied about doing their homework or eating fruit for breakfast or whether they actually took a drink at a party. They have never lied about major stuff like this. I absolutely hate how quickly young women are disbelieved in these situations - mostly because it is much nicer to think they are lying hormonal bitches than that adults can behave appallingly.

by his own admission he had heavy foreplay with his gf in the same room as his 14 year old. Fucking awful even if that is all he did. He needs to accept that even on what he admits to doing, he violated her trust and boundaries.

The babysitting thing is a different matter but can't say I'm impressed with either of them leaving a 14 year old with a 10 month old and going off on the piss. that isn't the big issue here though.

bastardkitty · 03/09/2018 23:17

A couple of people suggested going into school tomorrow and letting them know the situation. This is excellent advice.

cestlavielife · 03/09/2018 23:22

It may be worth pursuing having dd talk to someone before you meet with ex.
Perhaps there have been more issues than she has let on until now. She may not have wanted to tell you or upset you.
Or maybe it really is the first time there has been an issue.
The only thing you need to tell ex right now is to back off. Dd won't be going this weekend.
You are seeking advice.
Don't get into a likely shouting match with him and gf
Your responsibility is to dd. Find a way for her to have some control over how when and where she sees dad.

Bluntness100 · 03/09/2018 23:22

Another point to realise is your child will know enough to know that sex lasts longer than a kiss and a cuddle and sounds different. So him saying it was just a kiss and a cuddle is an admission they did something.

You know your child op. I'm guessing she knows what a kiss and cuddle looks and sounds like. And this wasn't it. This was something different.

It's honestly shocking. Taking your kids on holiday for three nights. Leaving them alone for two of them. Getting drunk for two of them and shagging with them in the room.

The poor daughter, to have been there with these people.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/09/2018 23:25

Does your dd have a phone ? As I suspect her df or gf would try a direct contact if you don't reply to them. I would let dd know it isn't her fault but for her own good you are taking it for tonight, tablet as well ( maybe link it to a good night's sleep before school tomorrow)

A very wise suggestion

Aeroflotgirl · 03/09/2018 23:29

I would be inclined to believe dd, she us 14, and knew what she saw. They are trying to make her look stupid. I am sure If it was just a kiss and cuddle, dd Would not be traumatised like this.

Haireverywhere · 03/09/2018 23:30

OP I hope you have spoken to the NSPCC as suggested as it's obviously gotten worse/more complex. It is understandable to be out of your depth but if you don't seek advice it'll get worse I think.

I absolutely concur with the posters recommending that (depending on what professional advice you receive re having this 4 way mtg) your DD is not gaslighted or made to feel shamed or blamed for her reaction or speaking out about what she believes she saw/heard.

I'm not in child services but I have read often a particularly damaging aspect of childhood traumas (this could be something she identifies as traumatic one day if not now) is whether one was believed or not, supported in making the disclosure and protected from gaslighting.

As a side note I do find his anger rather than confusion a strange response.

BlackWatchBelle · 03/09/2018 23:30

I have no advise. I just wanted to say I feel for you and your family, horrible thing to have to deal with and no matter what your poor dd will never have the same relationship with her dad.

I hope you can find the strength and support to get through all this with the least amount of emotional damage.

I do suspect that your ex isn't telling the whole truth. If it wasn't true I would have thought his response would have been horrified and quick to want to reassure your dd she misread it, not go ranting and raving calling her a liar.

Twombly · 04/09/2018 01:24

I think your DD is mistaken about what she heard and saw, and second the advice of a pp that you need to talk to her again, explaining that this is potentially serious and you need to be clear about exactly what happened, including follow-up questions about the babysitting to try and gauge how truthful your ex has been.

Obviously, this is a situation that wouldn't have arisen if your ex had not made the error of judgement of having them all in the same room, except that the alternative - having the baby in with them and your DD in a separate room that may or may not have been near at hand - would potentially have brought its own problems too. For myself, I find your ex's account plausible, but I don't know him, and of course that doesn't mean that the way things played out was OK, because clearly it wasn't, and all parties need to understand and agree on that, and agree that nothing like it will ever happen again, and accept that this incident has done damage that it's the adults' responsibility to address.

You are your DD's advocate, but I think you also have a responsibility to act as a mediator between your DD and her father. I think a lot of the advice on this thread has focused on the drama of worst-case scenarios and has forgotten that at the heart of this situation are two people you know very well, who are both distraught. If you, in your judgement, as a person who is actually on the spot and know them both, think this is a misunderstanding that arose out of poor judgement and thoughtless behaviour, then my advice would be to take the temperature down by talking as calmly as possible to all parties until the facts are more clear, and then acting as a mediator between them until they feel able to talk calmly to each other, and hopefully move beyond this eventually, if appropriate. I think it would be best if the gf and your dh stay out of it, at least for the first conversation with your ex, as too many cooks are apt to overheat the broth ime. I think it's positive that the gf has explicitly asked permission to be there, and would be perfectly OK for you in turn to ask her not to in this first instance.

Obviously your first priority is to satisfy yourself that your ex is not an abuser, and if you cannot do so, then advice to contact the NSPCC/SS etc becomes relevant. But if you are confident he isn't and that this has in fact been a godawful fuck-up, then your next priority is to ease the distress that has arisen in your DD's relationship with him, first in the immediate term and then over the coming months.

Disclaimer for the thread police: no formal safeguarding training but many years' experience of watching runaway threads on MN cause irreversible damage in real people's lives.

Flowers
CallMeOnMyCell · 04/09/2018 01:45

@Twombly I think your advice is spot on, there are so many people on this thread baying for blood and making things worse.

CallMeOnMyCell · 04/09/2018 01:51

Also just wanted to add that the advice earlier in the thread to the OP to call the NSPCC or SS is a massive overreaction when at that point the OP hadn’t even spoken to her ex! She knows her DD and ex and we don’t. None of us know how we would react if we were accused of this so it’s unfair to say the ex is lying just because of his initial reaction.
I hope you and your DD are ok OP.

Havabiscuit · 04/09/2018 02:18

There does seem to be a danger of making a drama out of a crisis here. I agree with previous poster who emphasise backing your dd. All this talk of confrontation though really won’t help.
Your ex has made a bad misjudgement I think. Repairing the damage is what you both should be thinking about. That’s what any conversation between you two should be about. The detail of what ex and gf actually did is almost irrelevant. It was inappropriate.

tinstar · 04/09/2018 02:22

Good post Twombly.

PremierNaps · 04/09/2018 02:39

This is awful. Don't let your ex minimise anything. You can ring NSPCC anonymously.

rainbowstardrops · 04/09/2018 03:42

Oh bloody hell, your poor DD.
I obviously have no idea if your DD was mistaken or not but she's hurting and she was put in a dreadful situation.
How did the meeting with your ex and the gf go?

Scrumptiousbears · 04/09/2018 06:00

Twombly

Totally agree.

Disfordarkchocolate · 04/09/2018 06:14

I think your best option is advice from the NSPCC. It will give you someone to talk about this to who is not personally involved, someone who won't get upset and has experience of similar issues. You know your daughter, if your initial reaction was that she was being honest about what she saw and heard hold onto that. Even if she didn't see/hear penatrative sex from what your X said she saw/heard something sexual that distressed her, that is not ok. Take care

whiteroseredrose · 04/09/2018 06:33

Disagree strongly with twombly. Even if she only saw snogging and groping it is foreplay and far too sexual behaviour with a teenager in the room. A quick peck and off to sleep is the only acceptable thing to do.

I'd also be suspicious of the father's reaction. Sounds like guilty realisation to me. As a PP said, a more expected first reaction would be shock not rage.

Your DD is 14 not 4 and knows what she saw. Your exH was on holiday, merry and behaved inappropriately. His daughter may now see him differently and not trust him so much. He needs to accept that. All the shouting and raging is his guilt talking and can't change how she feels. Saying sorry would be a better approach.

retainertrainer · 04/09/2018 06:39

A pp has said a 14 year old would know what sex looks and sounds like. How?!!!

MyOtherProfile · 04/09/2018 06:43

I think your DD is mistaken about what she heard and saw

I find your ex's account plausible, but I don't know him

But you don't know. She was traumatised by what ever she saw and it's really important not to decide not to believe her. Somehow you are choosing to believe the ex over the daughter. This could cauae just as much damage as you say you have seen on other threads.

Fortunately, while as you say, you have no training in this area, OP has had lots of advice from people who have, or even who work in this area.

bangourvillagebesttimeever · 04/09/2018 07:09

My DD is 14 and is fully aware of the difference between a snog and sex. I also don’t believe your ex when he says they came back drunk and it was a kiss and cuddle only. Reallly? A little pissed and stumble into bed kissing and they stop themselves from going any further. You need to be careful that you don’t dismiss your DD. She is 14 and not 6. My DD told me something about what her grandparents said once when she was around 10 and my OH spoke to them about it and they got angry like your OH. Said she wasn’t telling the truth and clearly hadn’t heard it right. My OH believed them, my DD was very upset and doesn’t confide in her father as she does trust him. Oh and the grandparents were proven to be the liars here btw. This needs careful handling or your DD will likely go NC with him. I would also be careful in relation to her phone as he could be sending messages now

NotTakenUsername · 04/09/2018 07:27

I do worry about some of the posts minimising what the dd experienced.

No one is baying for blood by suggesting op seek out professional advice.

Presumably, if these posters were correct about the trivial nature of this incident, NSPCC or similar would advise as such and help op approach it accordingly.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting op go in ‘all guns blazing’. The consensus has been quite the opposite:

Get advice. No rush. DDs (14 year old) well-being is paramount.