Absolutely raging - need to vent!!

[Cleanerrates]

14 year DD went away bank holiday weekend to the seaside with her dad, his gf and her 10 month old baby brother, she's seemed a little upset and withdrawn since coming back and tonight she finally told me why.
Two reasons - firstly for 2 nights out of the 3 DD was made to babysit her brother so her dad and gf could go out for dinner and drinks, apparently they were only at a bar a couple of minutes walk away so told DD to call if baby woke up and left her with a KFC for dinner both nights - ok some might say at 14 DD is old enough to babysit but they were all supposed to be on a holiday together.
Second reason I'm so raging I've sank a bottle of red in 20 minutes trying to keep calm. They all shared a room, DD was on a sofa bed, she heard/saw her dad and his gf having sex TWICE!!! First time she said she was facing the wall drifting off to sleep and heard them having sex, second time she was facing out into the room half woke up with a cramp in her leg wanted to turn over but saw they were having sex and shut her eyes and didn't dare move as she didn't want them to know she saw anything.... I'm fuming!!! DD said they came back from both nights out extremely drunk so don't know if they were both so pissed they weren't with it but what the actual fuck!!

DD has made me promise not to say anything to her dad as she doesn't want them to know that she saw/heard anything cos she's so embarrassed, upset and she spends every second weekend with them so doesn't want any awkwardness, obviously i wanna rip his head off but want to respect my DDs wishes. DH thinks I need to say something regardless of DD asking not to as he thinks it's too serious to just leave.

It doesn't sound pathetic at all OP. You are out of your depth - of course you are. That's why posters are suggesting that you seek advice from a specialist service. They can offer guidance and support. I think they will help you with a plan.

I honestly don't know what I'd do either OP. I really think you need to get some professional advice on this before either talking to your DD again or her Dad.

There isn't any rush with this......don't feel backed into a corner. The main thing is that your DD is talking to you about it.

Me thinks he doth protest too much.

This. I’m trying to put myself in the fathers position. If this genuinely didn’t happen, and the daughter was all wrong, I can’t imagine me getting angry/ shouting etc. That screams to me that he’s been caught out and the text from the gf has just sealed in for me.

Please never allow yourself to be dissuaded from believing your daughter. She has no reason to lie, they have every reason and she needs you to believe her right now x

Yes I think I will call NSPCC, can I talk to them anonymously?

Just to be clear, ex doesn’t want DD here when he comes over, we both agreed that.

I’m not going to reply to the gfs message. She can be here tomorrow if that what she wants. My DH wants to be here so I suppose I can’t say no to her coming can I?

I'd also agree calling the nspcc at this stage, the fathers reaction and then the shocking text from the girlfriend wishing to talk to thr girl about them having sex, and insinuating she should think she's in trouble.

And what part of taking your kids on holiday involves leaving them alone for two nights out of three when you go out drinking. And then doing enough in bed that the elder thinks you're shagging.

Then to follow it up with screaming, shouting, going berserk, and the girlfriend wanting to get involved and bully the child directly.

Call the nspcc.

You can call nspcc anonymously get advice tonight before dd goes back to school or go in with her and see the school safeguarding lead as a matter of urgency. Do not let the gf and dad gas light your dd by telling her she is wrong in what she said happened. You have to show her
You believe her. Poor girl

Your poor DD.

For argument's sake, let's say your Ex and his GF didn't have sex in the room with your DD.

They are still totally and utterly completely in the wrong under this 'best case' scenario under the circumstances: They left your DD in charge of a baby for 2 out of the 3 nights on their holiday so they could go out and drink. Your Ex did indeed get drunk. They then came back, got into bed together in the same room where they proceeded to snog and cuddle and make so much noise that your DD reasonably thought they were having sex.

Incredibly poor judgment on both their parts if that is indeed 'all' that happened. And that 'all' is completely inappropriate.

And if they did indeed have sex, that is a serious safeguarding concern that needs to be reported. I suspect they'll never admit it, though, so that will be down to you to decide what to do. But like another poster says, if your DD tells her friends and that travels back to the school through kids or their parents and you haven't reported your concerns... SS may have words.

I don’t actually think it matters whether or not you believe him. What matters is what your daughter saw and heard or what she thinks she saw and heard. Given his reaction, it seems safe to say it won’t ever happen again. You should tell your daughter that her dad said it was just kissing and cuddling. But be supportive as a) she thought it was set and b) it could have been very heavy kissing and cuddling which would still be cringeworthy to a teenager.

I think your daughter should be given the opportunity to say yes or no to contact and perhaps consider making it more activity based until she is more comfortable around her dad. That might help mend bridges between them.

I think you, as your daughter’s advocate, need to stress that she needs to feel comfortable with him and she gets to set the pace and agenda now. Even if he says and she knows it wasn’t full intercourse, she has been hugely upset by this. Sometimes perception is more important than reality.

Also, his anger at you seems over the top. Can you make a note of it somewhere or somehow in case this episode rears its head again in the future? I have a sneaky feeling it will be revisited.

I think it’s fine that the 4 adults talk but I’d make it very clear to ex and gf that you believe your daughter. They will potentially try to minimise everything and may even change their story to try to reach a point where you will accept their story...
A cheeky snog might turn into “maybe we fooled around a bit” or maybe she thought We fooled around.

Regardless, I think it’s right that you get advice before you talk to them and I think you need to keep a clear mind that your daughter needs you to believe her, it’s a dreadful thing to go through and I’m so sorry it’s happening to you and your poor daughter x

I'm not sure it particularly matters whether they technically had sex or not. He admits they "had a bit of a snog." Well, that sounds down-played and was likely quite a bit more than a long kiss and then roll away and go to sleep. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, I reckon it was probably quite a heavy, steamy snog which can't have been nice to witness either.
The fact of the matter, whatever they did or didn't do, your dd thinks it was sex, and is traumatised by it.

But what you do about this now, I'm afraid I just don't know either. Maybe leave it for tonight, other than a little goodnight chat about lighter stuff, and let her concentrate on getting back to school. Tell your ex he can't come over tomorrow, as she needs time to assimilate her thoughts. He can sweat, quite frankly.

Yes, you (and your daughter) can both contact NSPCC separately.

If my ex had asked me why I'd had sex in the same room as DD and I genuinely hadn't, my first reaction would be complete confusion - NOT raging and vehement denial. I think he knows they've completely fucked up and are acting exactly the way one would act if one were lying... another vote for believe your daughter. Even if full intercourse didn't happen- something inappropriate obviously did. And ignore Mellie, thank God she's not my mum.

I meant anonymously!

I think most people would be a bit lost in this situation. While on the face of it the gf’s text seemed reasonable, it was also very carefully worded. This did not happen and we will persuade her to agree with our version of events.

The she’s not in trouble comment was odd - maybe she is worried about ex’s angry outburst being communicated to daughter. She is trying to calm everything down.

I do think you need professional advice on this one. The focus is on dad and daughter and how to manage their relationship going forward. GF needs to take a big step back from this. A counsellor or mediator may be best to guide discussion between them once your daughter is ready to see him again.

Poor girl, awful situation

I'd agree don't have him over tomorrow. Just say you need some time. They are only coming to bully you because they know the repercussions of their actions, leaving her alone with the baby, gettin drunk, snogging and whatever to an extent that your daughter could clearly hear them doing it and thought it was sex.

They obviously thought she was asleep and were going to get away with it, and now they know they haven't they are desperate for everyone to think they didn't do that.

This all sounds like a horrific nightmare for you all and I'm so sorry you're going through this.
I agree about calling childline or similar may get some idea how to deal with the situation.
Does your dd have a phone ? As I suspect her df or gf would try a direct contact if you don't reply to them. I would let dd know it isn't her fault but for her own good you are taking it for tonight, tablet as well ( maybe link it to a good night's sleep before school tomorrow)

Oh,and just to highlight something else - your daughter needs to believe that you believe her in all of this. She has trusted you with something big that will have ramification across the family.

You may wish to speak to her form tutor about this as well. That serves several purposes - it lets them know to look out for any behavioral changes, it ensures playground gossip doesn’t become staffroom gossip, it creates a paper trail that covers your back if your DD doesn’t want to see your ex or if your ex wants to enforce custody arrangements. The form tutor can flag this up to school safeguarding or social services if necessary without you needing to report anything yourself.

I wouldn’t have either of them round until you’ve spoken to the NSPCC or your local authority MASH team.

Please make sure that you do that before your daughter goes back to school tomorrow. I would also speak to her teacher or the safeguarding lead at school so that they can be aware that she isn’t quite herself and can be properly supported.

Hi OP, I'm so sorry your poor daughter has experienced this. I would agree that contacting the NSPCC for advice (which you and your daughter can do anonymously) would be the best option. They can help you with both the safeguarding aspect, and how to support your daughter through this.

It seems like your exH and his gf think that correcting what they see as your daughter's misunderstanding is the best option. However, regardless of whether they had sex or not (which at the moment they are disputing), however they behaved made your daughter feel uncomfortable and frightened. Those emotions won't dissipate just because they tell her she is wrong in what she saw. I hope they can see things from her perspective, realise that they have broken her trust and realise the onus is on them to repair the relationship in her time, not theirs. It is important your daughter feels validated and that she did the right thing by telling you. That message needs to come from both parents and I hope her father can tolerate that instead of needing to put his feelings about this onto her. Best of luck and I hope the NSPCC are helpful.

OP - professional advice needed and for DD to see councillor to go through what she saw in her mind and how to process and deal with it. At this point the facts don’t matter, she needs to process it all. The prof should be able to help her with how to deal with her DF relationship too and should be able to give you some advice too - it’s awful for you all

Whatever happens your DD saw what she thinks she saw. If what your ex says is true, he should explain to your dd what exactly happened with an apology and be open and honest and never put her in a situation like that again.

It's a good point. Make sure your daughter knows you believ and support her. If she tells a friend, and that friend tells a parent, then you've a whole other world of pain to deal with here. You can't ask her not to tell anyone either, that's how abuse flourishes.

I think all you can do is seek professional help and ask these people to not come over yet.

And for the poster who said if she was accused of this and hadn't she'd be confused. That was my point earlier, if my daughter had said that I'd be confused, concerned, and want to explain to her. I wouldn't lose it like he did.

It signals he's a liar. As said, I suspect they thought she was asleep and had a shag and have just realised she was awake and could hear them. So they are both desperately denying it.

The rest though I can't explain. The leaving her babysitting for two of thr three nights holiday because they thought she was happy to, is unpleasant in itself. What kind of holiday is that?

Call nspcc and talk it through
Get some advice
Maybe talk to ex only with a mediator or family therapist
How do you think the conversation will go?

Having him scream at you or go mad won't solve anything.
If dd doesn't want to go to dad then clearly something is wrong.
She needs to talk to someone.
Agree it s about her perception and how she felt. Whatever he and gf did it s left her upset.

Calling sex disgusting is confusing... It isn't disgusting for adults to have sex per se...but it is wholly inappropriate for adults to have sex in front of a teenager in same room.
So speak to nspcc
How to talk to dd
How to get the message to ex

I would really recommend contacting a family therapist and having mediation with someone to lead the discussion who is knowledgeable in this area.

How you handle it now will have an impact for the rest of her life. Whatever they were doing it shouldn’t have been done with her in the room. It’s distasteful and confusing for her. I feel so sorry for her.