Guest blog: 'Breast is Best' - has breastfeeding been oversold?

[KateMumsnet]

Prof Joan B Wolf is the author of 'Breast Is Best?', which argues that mothers are being pressured to breastfeed for reasons that aren't, in fact, based on good evidence.

In our guest blog debate, she explains why she thinks that the science behind the 'breast is best' health claims might be fundamentally flawed. On the same page Anna Burbidge, Chair of the La Leche League, responds to some of her arguments.

Do read both, and let us know what you think. Is breastfeeding being promoted as part of "an ideology of total motherhood that stipulates that a mother can and should eliminate any risk to her children, regardless of how small or likely the risk or what the cost is to her own wellbeing in the process"? Or do you feel that, far from breastfeeding being an orthodoxy, society still feels awkward and uncomfortable about it? If you blog, don't forget to post your URLs here.

We know the breastfeeding/formula feeding thing is a hugely emotive subject on MN, as in real life, so please do remember that Mumsnet supports parents' personal choices on this issue - we're all about making lives easier. Please be kind and respectful towards those whose views or experiences differ from your own.

But Zavi, breastfeeding is a particular kind of bodily function. It's a baby eating. Presumably you are happy to eat in public. You are also presumably happy to see a baby being bottle fed in public, which let's face it, means you are happy to watch a baby with a fake breast and a fake nipple in its mouth (what else is a bottle teat emulating?). Why you therefore can't cope with the real thing is a mystery to me. Unless you think breasts are only sexual objects, and therefore breastfeeding is some weirdly inappropriate activity because on some level it's sexual? No? Care to unpick your reasons then?

Bfeeding in public is nothing like taking a shit in public. The law sees it as dfifferent as well and women have legal protection to bfeed in public.

Lurcher - I'm being devil's advocate here, but it's not just eating, is it - if all the wonderful oxytocin, bonding, cuddling and closeness are counted, it's a public display of affection. Seeing a mother breastfeed her baby is witnessing an intensely personal and intimate act. Some people switch between describing it as 'just food FFS' and the most wondrous thing imaginable depending on the point they wish to make.

Not that I personally mind in the slightest, it's lovely, but I always think this when people say 'it's just eating'.

holeyghost be careful or you'll be flamed soon for likening breast feeding to a fetish in the same way I was flamed for likening bf to shitting - which, I reiterate, I did not do!

That is a very interesting viewpoint that you raise about fetishes however...

Although I intended to ff from the outset I put baby to the breast to see what it felt like and was shocked to find that my clitoris starting ticking away and it really freaked me out!

Perhaps that's why some women like bf ing so much

For me the thought of bf ing stirring up any kind of sexual feeling was absolutely abhorrent and if I had been planning on bf ing - which I wasn't - I'm quite certain that I would have stopped there and then.

The whole thing was just way too animal/primitive for me anyway. I was more than happy to take advantage of modern advances in technology

As I keep saying tho I was thoroughly miffed that there was NO info available to me on ff at my AN classes. I needed that info then!

Zavi, WTAF? Are you serious?

Zavi you are disgusting. FF is not an advance on BF. It is a substitute for where BF is not possible.

no alibaba it's not a substitute for where bf is not possible - it's just a substitute and women can choose it. it's ok to ff even if you're capable of bf.

not that i'm agreeing with the other nonsense but i don't think that is even worth rising to and am surprised people are paying it any attention.

ali lets not get personal. I am not disgusting, though you may not agree with my views

Ff is a HUGE advance on bf ing in my opinion. Really!

Ff ng is not a substitute for where BF is not possible.

Given its availability it was my first choice

Well bfeeding is not possible if a mother doesn't want to do it (which is fine we have bodily autonomy as we should do) therefore formula the substitute.

And it may be your opinion zavi but saying that women shouldnt bfeed in public as its a bodily function like having a poo is a bodily function is offensive and legally women have the right to breed in public.

Zavi you were the one that got personal, suggesting that women who choose to BF do so because they find it sexually pleasurable.

Obviously I meant the naturalness is fetishised - as it is elsewhere in weaning, nappys, household cleaning etc. It makes caring for babies harder work than it needs to be.

I did not mean it in a sexual sense.

Agree with SAF about PND being due to both pressure on new mothers and the contrast with pre-motherhood.

No, ali I was careful not to direct personal remarks at anyone

I avoid doing that because I feel it lowers the quality of the debate and is really only for the preserve of those who are unable to further their debate in any meaningful way and, in their frustration, stoop to posting personal attacks instead.

Note also that I didn't say that women who choose to bf do so because they find it pleasurable. I said that I had found it sexually arousing [physically] and that I had found that to be abhorrent [mentally]

Have I hit on something here then?

Are bfeeders, who do so because they consider it to be "natural", more likely to be receptive to other "natural" feelings, such as sexual ones, whilst breeding?

Anyone ever had an orgasm whilst bfeeding?

Sexual feelings whilst breeding ? I should hope so!
Whilse breastfeeding? Have to say Zavi you are the first I've ever heard. Can it be a sensual (ie pleasurable, physically) experience - well yes of course, just like sniffing my baby's skin after a bath! Nothing remotely sexual about it though. It is also pleasurable when you have a 'full' feeling and the baby takes that away. I think it's a real shame if anything nice to do with our bodies comes under the label of "sex"

It may be natural, normal, lovely etc etc but it is a bit odd (especially in a cold wet country) to be seeing women's breasts in public and (frankly) in a domestic setting -- I can't think of any other everyday context where you'd be surrounded by several other women you hardly know with their breasts partly out (as I was the other day having invited some NCT women round). Well maybe on a beach I suppose, but not in the house/down the shops. In a world where a singer having a 'wardrobe malfunction' is international news I do find it odd that when it comes to breastfeeding you're not supposed to notice or find it in any way unusual...

But, after the initial few weeks, you don't really see anything. Just the baby's head.

Well, as I say I only tried it the once!

That's why I'm so interested to see if anyone else has felt the same.

I'm a perfectly normal physical specimen, and the bfeeding obviously triggered a naturally occurring response in my body...

It was just so unexpected though and it really shocked me.

Is there an elephant in the room?

LOL at the sexual feelings whilst breeding, my type obviously, though Frued might have something to say about that slip

You might find such a response would diminish/vanish once your body was used to fact it was a baby feeding.
It is sad that women from an NCT group (presumably with small babies, many bfing) couldn't be a bit more relaxed together than they might be if out alone, PhineyJ.

Perhaps I shouldn't get drawn into this...

but, zavi, I can honestly say that my breastfeeding experience has been absolutely nothing like yours. There is no elephant in the room, unless you are imagining it.

There is nothing in the process of bf that in any way relates to sex at all. I hate to break it to you but the primary function of breasts is to feed a baby. The sexual significance of them is secondary, but unfortunately our society focuses on this at the expense of their primary function.

When I feed in public you will not see anything of my breasts at all, as clothing covers most of me and my baby's head covers the rests. You'll see more boob from scantily clad young women going out on the town than you will when I'm breastfeeding!

When I see a mother feeding her baby I barely register it. I really struggle to understand how it could disgust or offend anyone. It's as disgusting/offensive as seeing a mother cuddling her baby.

I agree that there is nothing at all about bfeeding that relates to sex, as far as I am aware.

I'm talking about how when I put my baby to my breast my clitoris started ticking, in much the same way as it does when I am aroused sexually.

The only difference for me was that instead of finding it pleasurable, it horrified me and I immediately stopped.

I understood instantly what men mean by "morning glory" - a state of tumescence for them that had all of the physical hallmarks of a sexual experience without the necessary mental "mindset" to give it integrity if that makes any sense.

Anyway, I should probably start a separate thread about this rather than hijack this thread...

Yep, I was right, I shouldn't have got drawn in.

Weird. This thread was going so well.. can't be helped I suppose. Zavi, did you consider it might just be a conditioned response based on the fact that you view breasts as sexual? I've felt a LOT of things while breastfeeding (many of them very painful in the early days) but clitorally stimulated never!

As for the cold climate . I make a personal habit of never breastfeeding my baby outside in the wind, rain or snow. Indoors, it is perpetually 20+ degrees wherever you go these days. I might as well be in Mallorca.

I have fed outside when its been cold/wet/snowy as i have a few children and baby just comes along. Baby wrapped up warm and i just unzip coat and stick baby in. I always wore a vest top undrr my main top. So one top up, the other down no flesh exposed.

Seeing a baby feeding is normal, we see women in swimsuits and underwear in adverts all the time and many women wear skimpy clothing. Seeing breasts being used as they are intended is normal.

And re it being too animalistic.... We are mammals...

I ve never found it sexual but maybe some do, some women orgasm during childbirth as well. bfeeding is allowed to be pleasurable, at times it drove me mad, other times i loved it and enjoyed it.

You're not alone Zavi. There's a book called "The Functions of the Orgasms: the highways to transcendence" by Michel Odent (the French dr who promotes water birth - where possible) which has a chapter about it. In that chapter there are further books quoted which deal with the subject. Despite the book's title, it's not about orgasm in this case, more about arousal.

In short, it's related to the release of oxytocin and there's nothing abnormal or "wrong" about it in the slightest.

I think the best comparison would be to see how 2 children turn out when born to the same parents....1 bf 1 ff with all other surrounding factors the same (birth health, place of residence, working situation, etc). I bf my first child with ease and am therefore pro-bf, however I know plenty of well educated, excellent parents who ff through choice or necessity. I salute anyone who pumps breast milk as hard work! I am currently pregnant with my 2nd child and wlt bf again for 3 reasons (1-it's natural and 2-I find it easier than preparing bottles, which also daunts me and 3-we co-sleep for 6m and therefore get more sleep), but i try to be open minded in case it doesn't work. After all every parent-child bf-eeding relationship is different. I agree bf support should be increased, but ultimately the feeding (amongst other things e.g. co-sleeping) is a personal choice, cut the social pressure and leave women to decide themselves and be the best they can be under their individual circumstances.