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Guest blog: 'Breast is Best' - has breastfeeding been oversold?

326 replies

KateMumsnet · 14/02/2013 14:15

Prof Joan B Wolf is the author of 'Breast Is Best?', which argues that mothers are being pressured to breastfeed for reasons that aren't, in fact, based on good evidence.

In our guest blog debate, she explains why she thinks that the science behind the 'breast is best' health claims might be fundamentally flawed. On the same page Anna Burbidge, Chair of the La Leche League, responds to some of her arguments.

Do read both, and let us know what you think. Is breastfeeding being promoted as part of "an ideology of total motherhood that stipulates that a mother can and should eliminate any risk to her children, regardless of how small or likely the risk or what the cost is to her own wellbeing in the process"? Or do you feel that, far from breastfeeding being an orthodoxy, society still feels awkward and uncomfortable about it? If you blog, don't forget to post your URLs here.

We know the breastfeeding/formula feeding thing is a hugely emotive subject on MN, as in real life, so please do remember that Mumsnet supports parents' personal choices on this issue - we're all about making lives easier. Please be kind and respectful towards those whose views or experiences differ from your own.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 15/02/2013 22:19

no.we need to stop categorizing ang grading decisions about bf as wrong
thats the whole problem,labelling circumstances leading to not bf as wrong.
this ends up potentially guilting and stressing mums inference being they contributed to wrong.didn't try hard enough

Phineyj · 15/02/2013 22:24

I don't get the 'formula is so expensive' argument. Having a baby is the expensive part...feeding them is a tiny proportion of that, and surely one expects to budget to feed them later on once they're weaned? (also to be accurate one should include the cost of the extra calories the bf mum needs). And don't the vast majority of mums need bottles & the sterilising equipment anyway whichever feeding method they've chosen?

detoxlatte · 15/02/2013 22:26

Because, sunshine if you are making that decision at that time, then I don't believe you are making it for the right reasons.

This is breathtakingly judgmental, rude and ignorant. What can you possibly know about the family set-up of someone on the internet to be able to come out with this sort of statement?! If I were sunshine I would certainly be muttering 'how very dare you' under my breath...

I'm afraid to say that it is this sort of statement that gives the pro-bf campaign a bad name.

Do you really think that the incremental benefits of bf over ff outweigh every single other factor that a woman makes in deciding how to feed her child for the first few weeks/months of its life?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

JumpHerWho · 15/02/2013 22:27

Yy Scottishmummy (as am I btw Smile )

In DS's favour, my attributes: I'm middle class, did NCT, intended to bf, did so successfully in recovery post c-sec, doing BLW, being a SAHM, am baby-led in most stuff, don't use reins, plan to privately educate (or is that a con? )

Against: formula fed from day 1, never co-slept, in own room from 3 months, never used a sling, provide fish fingers and evilly marketed toddler snacks

That was an interesting exercise actually. Wine

another benefit of not bfing

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 15/02/2013 22:37

SM you're missing the point. A woman who wants to bf and doesn't manage it because she's been given shit advice and left on her own to cope with problems isn't making a decision, she's just been failed by lack of support. That IS wrong.

scottishmummy · 15/02/2013 22:39

I'm missing no point.I'm disputing the erroneous interpretation of wrong

thunksheadontable · 15/02/2013 22:41

Polkadot, not just the internet. I think there is a lot of emphasis on "evidence" and "reason" across many areas of life now, it is a bit like a religion to some. I work in health and sometimes people are so focused on the "evidence" that they forget to actually listen to/talk to the patient in front of them, because they are essentially reading a care pathway instead of observing what is actually happening with the person in front of them. I've seen the same in Education - everything is about "levels" and "progress" on targets that are often infuriatingly woolly and quite questionable in terms of their relevance to anyone's real life but god forbid a child isn't showing "evidence" of this learning (some of which is actually just describing typical development). A lot of it is just nonsense dressed up as science.

thunksheadontable · 15/02/2013 22:42

hey Jumpher, I thought co-sleeping was an "against" on my list Wink

cupofteaplease · 15/02/2013 22:54

Breast isn't always best.

Dd3 was tube fed prescription milk from the day of her birth until the day of her death. She couldn't coordinate swallowing and breathing, never mind latching on. I couldn't express milk, despite trying.

I loved her as much as any breast feeding mother loves their baby.

In the grand scheme of things, what you feed your baby is pretty unimportant.

Just saying, like.

thunksheadontable · 15/02/2013 23:01

Cup I lurked a bit on one of your original threads about Beatrice while I was pregnant. She was such a little fighter despite such awful odds stacked against her from the start. I am so sorry that she isn't with you in body tonight and all nights. Unimportant doesn't even begin to cover all the rest of it.

easterbaby · 15/02/2013 23:28

Big hugs go out to Cup. There's a beautiful children's book called "I love you forever" (I think? - can't lay my hands on it right now.) It focuses on the wonderful intimacy of holding our babies, and how love is passed down by generations of parents. The mummy in the book says "As long as I'm living, my baby you'll be."

Breast or bottle feeding doesn't even come into it. Both are valid, healthy choices. I've done both and the intense love I feel for my baby comes from nuturing him, inside me during pregnancy and throughout our precious time together since he was born.

1978andallthat · 15/02/2013 23:46

JumpHerWho - we use reins. Is that bad? Hmm

1978andallthat · 15/02/2013 23:54

Can't link as using phone but this is a brilliant article (Hanna Rosin, The Atlantic) on the snobbery about her bottle feeding dc3 and looking at the science behind the myths.

m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/307311/

PolkadotCircus · 16/02/2013 08:39

I had a touch of PND with dd(trying to stretch myself across 3 babies).Anyhow I got sent on this course for several months with loads of other mums which was fantastic.It was quite interesting as apparently PND rates are rocketing and a huge part of the course was debunking this ideology thing of motherhood which kind of links in with the op.

The leaders spent a large amount of time training us to except that good enough is good enough and to not get dragged down by the huuuuuge amount of pressure that is everywhere re motherhood.Guilt was a big factor and trying to be the perfect mum,not looking after ourselves as mothers etc. Anyhow they basically spent a large amount of time training us not to put ourselves on the sacrificial alter of motherhood which goes against everything the breast feeding lobby believe.

I think the breast is best message has gone too far(scaremongering and stat twisting is used far too much,interestingly not so much by doctors)and I do wonder if it is responsible for this widespread pressure put on mothers these days. Mums know it is the preferable choice(you'd have to be on Mars not to)which is why most mums attempt it.Even with more support I suspect many would still stop and that is absolutely fine particularly when you compare it's impact on health compared to other far weightier issues.

Really if one is going to,place so much stock in bfing then surely we should all be raising our kids as veggie,making them eat 10 a day,organic food and ensuring they get an hour of vigorous exercises a day along with playing a musical instrument and reading several books a week too.When you look at it like that you can see how ridiculous the weight put on the breast feeding message by some is.You can't big up one ideal and not other far weightier ideals.

Mothers need to look after themselves,not beat themselves up over issues which in the long term scheme of things are relatively small.it is a marathon and you can only do your best to try and raise a healthy child.It is a complex issue and doesn't rest entirely on one factor,some things you'll manage and others you won't.At the end of the day if you give your child a long term healthy diet,adequate exercise and stimulation you'll be doing a good job. In all that we need to use our own mothering instinct,yes you sometimes need support and guidance but ultimately we know know what is best for our babies and our family as a whole. The breast is best lobby need to remember that.

PolkadotCircus · 16/02/2013 08:41

Hugs to cup from here too.

swallowedAfly · 16/02/2013 10:03

haven't read the whole thread (and daredn't frankly having seen so many threads on this topic on mn) but one thing that concerns me is that we talk about breastmilk as if it was some generic thing that is of the same quality, healthiness etc in every woman.

i know of other countries where they test your breast milk particularly if your baby isn't feeding well or gaining weight. breast milk is made from the mothers system and not all systems are equal.

i personally would like to see the whole morality, right/wrong, pressure and lashback to that pressure emotive stuff taken out of baby feeding. whether a baby has bm or f is such a small part of that child's life, health, prospects etc. the emotive stuff taps into the intense emotions and concern and protectiveness and sometimes neurosis of new mothers. we're so keen to get everything 'right' and not to be 'wrong'. i think our capacity for realistic risk assessment etc during that period is greatly reduced - it's an intense time - i'm pretty chill and i remember writing down every time i breastfed my son, how long he fed for, which breast or later when i was having to combine feed all the details of that too. and when bf clearly wasn't working for us it was agonising to work out what to do and i was vulnerable to whichever vastly different theory/value projection/dogma i heard from a midwife or hv at baby clinic that week.

i personally believe a happy, coping, healthy mother is the single most important thing for a baby. it is entirely reliant on her being able to provide it's basic needs. she doesn't have to meet them perfectly but she has to meet them. better to be able to meet them by doing what works for you, your family, your situation than to end up unable to meet them through exhaustion, depression, anxiety and crippling self doubt.

there is not enough difference between bf and ff to merit making a woman anxious, insecure or doing things someone else's way when she is a vulnerable new mother with the vulnerability of a new life's care in her hands.

i don't care whether you bf or ff - it's up to you and fair play to you. i care if you are managing to get enough sleep, managing to feel calm and happy enough to really interact with and enjoy your baby, if you're getting enough nutrition to keep your body healthy, if you're recovering well physically and mentally from the pregnancy and birth. i care if you sing to your baby and spend time gazing into it's eyes and giving it a secure connection to you and life and itself.

whether you feed it with a bottle or your breast is secondary by a long shot.

sorry long post as i think i'll post and run for fear of being attacked. this topic is so ridiculously sensitive.

scottishmummy · 16/02/2013 10:17

aim to be good enough mother and mode of feeding doesn't make you better mother
its highly pressured as new mum,how one feeds,striving to be perceived as really good,striving for unattainable perfection
bombarded about weight loss post-birth,coping with mental and physical changes

EATmum · 16/02/2013 10:31

I think in all these posts, only about 3 people have referenced mixed feeding. I think that reflects how polarised this debate is. I bf all my children, but after massive problems getting DD1 and DD2 to take a bottle when I went back to work, I mixed fed DD3 from the start. Just one bottle a day, early evening, when my husband came home - so he could share, so my boobs could make a little more milk for the night, and so if we ever wanted to go out, we could.

It made such a difference. I still went through the hell of sore, cracked nipples but no mastitis this time round (had that with both of the others), and because I had experience I knew that 6-8 weeks in, the pain would reduce. And my husband loved being involved, able to share in that time.

With DD1 I was so determined to bf, with a hormonally driven self-imposed conviction that makes me slightly embarrassed now. It was only later that I reflected on how badly I'd been advised and supported.

Let's end the "it doesn't hurt if you do it right" crap. It does. Not everyone, but for some of us it really, really hurts. Don't make us feel that that is our fault too ...

But my respect to cup, for showing how truly irrelevant all this is to doing the best for your child.

Floweryhat · 16/02/2013 10:43

For me the main issue is about individuals. When it goes well and both parties want to do it, breastfeeding is good for babies and mothers (and dads, families and wider society too). When it doesn't go well it can be a living nightmare for everyone involved.

I would like to see every mother who wants to breastfeed (whether partially or wholly) supported to breastfeed for as long as she and her baby both want to. In my utopia no-one would ever say 'is that baby feeding again?', or 'isn't he a bit big for that now?'. Appropriate, well-trained support would be available to families when and where they need it. So, that would mean on-call health professionals in hospitals postnatally plus trained peer supporters on the wards daily (some areas do have the latter already). Peer support is very important, because it is different to health professional support. Peer supporters are really great at sitting with you, hearing your story, mopping your tears, inspiring you that it can really be done -oh and also supporting you without judgement when you're just done and want to stop. Once home, midwives should be able to visit as often (or not) as the mum needs in the first few weeks. Sod postnatal clinics in supermarkets! Breastfeeding groups with peer supporters should be accessible in all areas, and even better if they can do home visits too. The helplines already exist Smile.

In my ideal world, all breastfeeding mothers would be entitled to regular breasteding/expressing breaks at work with suitable facilities to express and store milk if they want or need to.

In my ideal world, no-one would wonder whether it's ok to feed a baby in XXX place. Why wouldn't they? It would just be a given. (Note I haven't said what the baby is fed).

In my ideal world, mothers who don't want to breastfeed wouldn't. If they wanted to discuss it before their baby was born, then the opportunity for a sensitive conversation with an appropriately-trained individual with good listening skills and actual knowledge about breastfeeding would be there. BUT if that opportunity was not wanted then that would be respected absolutely and without question. Postnatally and once at home, mothers and their families would also be respected, and they would be helped to feed their babies responsively, given info about bottle feeding by appropriately trained health professionals and peer supporters (not by formula manufacurers), offered skin-to-skin, helped to manage any engorgement etc etc. Mothers' views as individual human beings would be respected.

I know people who didn't intend to breastfeed, but after their baby fed once after birth, they ended up doing it anyway. I also know people who decided to give it a go because of what they learned about it in their antenatal classes. They had never considered it because their mothers and friends and families all bottle fed. Some breastfeed for a short time, others longer. There is a role for sharing information antenatally. The key is then that everyone must get the support they want and need to feed for as long as they wish (hours or years, whatever) and to feel positive about that experience.

Saying the positives of breastfeeding shouldn't be promoted antenatally in case people feel guilty is a cop-out on the part of the Govt and NHS. If they actually upped their game postnatally then guilt wouldn't come into it. At the moment far too many mothers have horrible awful experiences of breastfeeding as this thread shows. Those people have not failed, or 'not tried hard enough' or 'not been determined enough'. They have just had a terrible time and made the best decisions for their families in the circumstances they were in. That's all any of us can do, and no-one should be berated for it. What's really sad, is that in some cases, with better support from the very start, those experiences might not have panned out that way.

Can't we all stick together and demand the services and support ALL mothers need postnatally without judging each other?

swallowedAfly · 16/02/2013 10:47

that is indeed a eutopia. would i want millions spent on supporting women to bf 'on call' or would i want those millions to be used to support parents with disabled children? the latter for me.

if we had those millions to spend on family support i can think of ten more important ways to spend it off the top of my head sorry.

Floweryhat · 16/02/2013 10:53

Swallowed - even if the evidence exists that facilitating even a proportion of the mothers who want to breastfeed, to breastfeed for as long as they want to money over the course of that child's life?

I am not talking about forcing anyone who doesn't want to to breastfeed. Just enabling those who do...

Better provision for disability is something I would also support. It doesn't have to be one or the other Smile

Floweryhat · 16/02/2013 10:54

Saves money

hotbot · 16/02/2013 11:55

Hear hear, more practical support for those who chose to bf, and actual acceptance that no matter what you choose to do , you will not be JUDGED

scottishmummy · 16/02/2013 11:59

flowery your post typifies to me that over zealous bf approach
bf good for societzzazawy?how so?does it reduce anti-social behaviours,reduce substance misuse
you still have that eulogizing about bf approach.that's what js part of the problem

Floweryhat · 16/02/2013 12:09

Really? Saving the nhs millions is not good for society? Enabling mothers to feed their babies the way they want to could not be considered good for society? You've lost me...

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