I work in a sexual health clinic...ama

[Hereandthereandeverywhere]

Go for it! Nothing is too much

You’re assuming the OP is a woman.

This thread is one of the most disturbing ones that I've come across on here. That a man or woman comes on to Mumsnet and pretends to care about women.

Is the OP a man or a woman. He or she won't say. In either case we can't believe whatever they say. They are a men's rights activist whatever.

The OP has already said she has left the thread. This thread is now just a hive mind shouting at clouds 🤣

Like...you?

We're not talking to OP. She wasn't listening even when she was here.

Women demanding their rights. There’s nothing worse, is there?

They never said what their role was or whether they were male or female so I think we need to be sceptical about everything they said.

He or she has done her damage to sexual health clinics. I would be very wary visiting now. I don't know what her/his motives were.

I do not think they were an actual practitioner. Probably a receptionist or some such. I'd take it all with a pinch of salt. But if it helps, when I contacted my GP (really hard to get an appointment) with symptoms that could have been an STI (it wasn't, thankfully), they took it very seriously and I was seen that day.

It certainly feels violating, whether that was the intention or not.

@ThatCyanCat I understand what you're saying but the flaw in your argument is that you are assuming that everyone you thought was a woman, was in actual fact a woman. I do think some men can pass successfully (in appearance) as a woman, in which case you would have no way of knowing and wouldn't even suspect.

More reason for trans women to to be referred as men then, isn’t it? Then there’s no confusion. No chance of women being covertly violated

Unless those men say they are women and their employers think they are women. Then nobody would know.

Highly unlikely, but ok, some people get away with breaking the law. We don't respond to that by saying the law shouldn't exist. This is literally the only thing where people claim that because it can't be magically enforced 10000% of the time everywhere, we should just fuck all safeguardsand protective laws off completely.

Why is that, do you think?

I didn't say the law shouldn't exist. I'm just pointing out that the system could never be foolproof.

And I can do 120mph and run red lights in an area where there are no cameras and get away with it. Do we give up on speed limits and traffic law enforcement completely?

As with every other law and safeguard in existence. Why are we supposed to be so awed at that when it comes to this one?

@Womaninhouse17 when I was 11, I was forced to allow a male doctor to inappropriately touch me. He used to send my mum out of the room, and strip me and my sister to our knickers and make us lie down. Then he would touch us.

Do you understand why that would leave very distressing memories?

For a long time, I had trouble even seeing male drs. Definitely not for intimate stuff. It put me into total fight or flight mode.

Then I had to have surgery in discipline (urology/ kidney) which is heavily male dominated and the only surgeons qualified to do my operation were men. I had to suck it up or risk lifelong health consequences.

Squashing down my own feelings of sickness/ wrongness was very hard and messed for months after, probably years. Constant intrusive thoughts, inability to sleep, nightmares coming back about when I was a child.

Those feelings continued throughout pregnancy and childbirth. They only really calmed down when I had had my last baby, because I knew that then, if I really needed to, I could refuse a HCP who made me uncomfortable, even if the result was I suffered. Knowing I have that choice made all the difference and now in my 40s, I am just getting to where I can see male drs again without distress.

Even if you have no experience, can you use your imagination and try to understand what that might have been like?

For a patient like me - do you think someone like me should be able to access female only healthcare? Let's say a male could "pass" well enough to fool me. Do you think it is okay for that HCP to trick me into believing I am accessing female only healthcare?

I would genuinely be interested to hear any of the dismissive people on this thread answer. If you can do so with some empathy.

God so many typos ^ sigh.

I will also just saw, I am completely disheartened by the understanding of EDI on this thread.

EDI matters. It really does. And it is a hard, ongoing practice.

It does not look like arriving at a certain set of "pure" language markers and then using those like tokens.

That's not inclusivity. It's gatekeeping.

EDI involves difficult conversations, grey spaces, balancing acts. There's a poster upthread who uses terms like "chestfeeding" as inclusive but will alter to breastfeeding if someone wants. But warns that her service prioritised "inclusive" language.

That's not what inclusivity means, though. Inclusivity involves understanding there are a range of valid views , not one correct inclusive view and you put up with the bigots too because your policy says you have to.

What’s EDI and why does it mean pretending people can change sex?

I had such a good experience having a coil fitted at my local GUM clinic that I emailed in with feedback on how happy I was with them! So much much more time taken to explain my options to me and such a welcoming and relaxed environment, compared to previous experiences having it fitted at a GP. I also had great experiences getting the contraceptive injections through the years. Such an important and necessary service for anyone who needs them.

The trouble is though, none of us have any idea whether people on the internet are who they say they are. The OP has been called out on erroneous information several times on this thread.

I've seen a thread from someone claiming to be a doctor. Their posts included multiple misspelled medical terms. I reported the thread, MN said they were just typos and the thread stayed up. It was obvious (to me) that the person wasnt clinical, yet people were asking for, and maybe taking, advice from them.

I think EDI is equity, diversity and inclusivity, and it doesn't mean pretending people can change sex. It mean letting people who want to pretend they've changed sex access the health services they need (which are not necessarily the ones they want), a point nobody denies.

It certainly has nothing to do with letting practitioners who want to pretend they've changed sex act out their fantasies on patients.

No. As I have said in another comment, I haven't said anything about giving up or changing laws.

@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff I certainly don't think it's okay for any HCP to trick you or anyone else into thinking they are a woman if they are not.

So it’s oxymoronic? You can’t service women’s health needs by claiming to be diverse (including men) and inclusive (women only).

what a silly slogan