I work in a sexual health clinic...ama

[Hereandthereandeverywhere]

Go for it! Nothing is too much

Consent requires honesty from the HCP. A man in a frock with earrings and lipstick pretending to be a woman is anything but honest.

You can get sent to prison for pretending to be a different sex during a sexual encounter. It vitiates consent. Why should it be different for a medical encounter?

It is shocking. The only consolation is that a man in a frock doesn’t fool anyone that they are actually a woman so I would definitely refuse treatment when I saw them. Shouldn’t be put in that position though, especially for intimate examinations like those at a sexual health clinic.

Vaginal atrophy 🙃 have you been seen by the GP for perimenopause ? You can obtain topical , or pessary oestrogen on prescription. It appears to be helpful for some women in but not sure if can reverse the changes

This with bells on💓

If a man in a dress turned up, surely you'd refuse to be examined by them if you'd asked for a woman? And does this mean that you would need proof of the sex of whoever examined you, no matter what they looked like? I'm just trying to understand how this would work in practice.

Nhs policy says trans people (or any person) shouldn't be asked their gender at birth. Many trans women are absolutely stunning and look very feminine. The term 'man in a dress' is exceptionally derogatory. I urge all of you to get to know some trans people and the struggles they have, and continue to, go through. Open your minds, and perhaps stop following JK Rowling and reading the daily mail 😘 I'm sad a post meant to be informative and break the embarrassment of coming to a sexueal health clinic has resulted to this. I'll leave it here and go back to my accepting, respectful, bubble where people take each other for who they are, not their genitals.

I know, it's depressing how far things have regressed. Remember the TIM at Edinburgh Rape Crisis who said that rape victims who didn't want to be examined by men were bigots who need to be "challenged on their prejudices"? He added that "therapy is political". This is where we are: even in stressful and vulnerable situations, women are expected to put themselves last.

Could you please inform everyone what role you have within sexual health services?

@Hereandthereandeverywhere I haven't engaged in any discussion regarding trans people.
But I have asked twice what qualifications you have to back up the medical advice you have been giving on this thread and you haven't answered but have been active responding to to other questions. From that I can only surmise that you aren't in fact qualified or registered with the GMC or NMC and it's extremely irresponsible to be offering such advice while representing yourself as someone who has the training to do so if that's not the case.

Wow, where do we even start?

Absolutely stunning? They are male, I couldn't give a fig how stunning you think they are. What a bizarre comment that reveals your innate need to pander to male fantasies.

I urge you to stop following JK Rowling
JK is a survivor of serious abuse at the hands of a male partner. But then again your service doesn't care about the rights of female survivors does it?

And to stop reading the Daily Mail
Never once picked it up OP. I'm left wing. Sex realists come from all different political persuasions.

My accepting bubble where people take each other for who they are, not their genitals
Oh the irony.....

What a scumbag response

Absolutely terrifying people like you deliver health care to vulnerable women and girls.

@BoeotianNightmare I'm still trying to work out my feelings on the trans issue and try to keep an open mind. However, I found that 'stunning' and 'feminine' comment by OP unsettling. I'm a woman and doubt I'd ever be described as stunning or feminine. I really don't think appearance comes into the argument at all!

Only men are praised for their attempts to perform “woman”. Actual women are derided from all sides.

Eddie Izzard wore a short dress and was praised for how stunning he looked 🙄 in “girl mode”

Queen Letezia wore the exact same dress, did actually look stunning, and was publicly shamed for being mutton dressed as lamb.

Have you ever heard a transwomen be referred to as “mutton dressed as lamb”?

Ah but by your logic there, it would mean you couldn’t tell the difference between a “man in a frock” and a woman. That’s interesting, isn’t it….?

This is truly grim. “Stunning” - WTAF??? The measure of a woman is how beautiful she is?

There’s no place in healthcare for the practitioner’s struggle, and it’s thoroughly improper to suggest a patient should have to take it into account.

Beyond grim, in fact. Beyond misogyny, too.

And by “genital inspection” logic, we would have to assume that male HCP would knowingly go against the boundaries and consent of women in order to access them intimately…

Because surely we’d be able to just say “no males” and have them respect that. Right?

I wonder if any women have ever suffered from seeing anyone in a sexual health clinic. It can sometimes be a pretty scary place to go to if you haven't been before.
I have only ever heard of positive experiences, including one from a woman with Stage 4 cancer with persistent and distressing discharge that her GP was unable to help with. She saw a consultant who also happened to be a trans woman and highly respected in her field. She receive nothing but great care, time and kindness, and after the consultant moved to another clinic she ensured that the woman's care continued with another consultant. I'm sure had she wanted to be treated by someone else she could have been.
My experience has only been positive (though the nice gay senior male nurse could have inserted the speculum at a more comfortable angle before removing my coil 😩). I've had quite a few intimate examinations over the past few years - mostly by men with always female nurses there and felt comfortable being treated, knowing I could always ask for someone else if I wished.

This is actually a really helpful thread. It’s real-life evidence of how much work still needs to be done to teach people that the objection to a man in a frock pretending to be a woman isn’t because he’s ugly, it’s because he’s a man.

The OP will get the point, eventually. Maybe not soon, but in time.

Always with this cack.

I know several trans people. They're all very nice (actually, one is a total turd but it's not because he identifies as trans). It's also completely clear in every single case which sex they are. Not one passes. And even if they did, they still wouldn't be that sex. What's your point?

Sure, they've got struggles. We all have. The world isn't obliged to change to reflect our wishes rather than reality and deny others their rights because it shatters our delusions. They can dress and present as they please and follow the same rules as everyone else. What other people's struggles override reality and consent?

OK, some trans identified men are pretty. So what? They're not women. That's not only regressive and sexist, it's transphobic against the ugly and manly looking transwomen.

And again with the "genitals" stuff, as if women wanting a female healthcare provider or single sex spaces are in fact the perverse ones. That really is disgraceful.

Countless women on this thread have explained to you how derogatory the term cis women is, but you have ignored it. I think you're the one who needs to open their mind, perhaps stop following Owen Jones and reading the Guardian, which caused an exodus of female writers when they banned women from writing about gender. It's terrifying how you assume yourself to be morally correct and superior with your patronising kissy faces, when you're pandering to a movement centred around wilful delusion and the erosion of women's basic rights and identity.

I don’t think the OP will get the point. The OP seems to be enjoying themselves now. Women and their boundaries eh?

Struggling to see how sex segregation works in practise 🫠

If you seriously routinely struggle to sex human beings, I don't think we can help you. I can simply remind you that for zillions of years, nobody ever found it so complicated to figure out who the women were when they were the ones being denied leadership roles, education, votes and bank accounts. Weirdly, that was one difficulty that simply never arose. Five minutes ago, men started claiming a right to get into the ladies' and ever since then there's been some kind of mass lobotomy and suddenly everyone is just totally flummoxed at how to tell men from women.

Weirdly, such people never call for an end to sex segregated spaces. They still want rooms labelled "ladies", they just want everyone to pretend they've no idea who's supposed to be in there.

At any rate, even if you don't know someone's sex, you know your own. So if you're a decent person, why would you not self regulate and just use the correct service? Wouldn't it be wrong for a man who knows he's a man to attend someone who requested a woman? Why would he do that?

Wait until her middle age, or menopause, and let’s re-examine.

At any rate, even if you don't know someone's sex, you know your own

in a normal universe. But then Dr. Upton’s sure he’s a biological woman, and Isla Bumba has no idea what sex she is.

#sadtimes