I turned down induction at 41 weeks. 6 days later my baby was stillborn. AMA

[willowwonder]

This happened over a decade ago now, so while it isn't raw and I am happy to answer questions - please be kind and remember I am a real person.

The background is this was my first pregnancy. I was in my 20s. I did an online hypnobirthing course which presented induction as a thing to be avoided at all costs. As I approached and then passed my due date, I saw a lot of info online around how a full term pregnancy is anything up to 42 weeks. I read stories of women declining induction and some even having their babies at 43+ weeks.

So when I had my 41 week midwife appointment, I was quite relaxed about declining induction. It was presented to me in a very optional way too - I think she said "we can book you in for induction now, or wait and hopefully it will happen naturally in the next few days". So I didn't feel like I was staunchly refusing medical advice.

I think that the bigger contributing factor was that I never had any continuity of care, the midwife at that appointment was one I had never seen before. Maybe something could have been picked up if I was being cared for by someone who knew me?

Saying that - obviously if I had been induced at 41 weeks, my daughter would likely have lived.

This happened to my cousin 30+ years ago. I had no idea it was dangerous to go past your due date (I was induced at ten days over)

So sorry OP for your loss. So brave to open up like this.

did you go on to have more kids? How did you approach pregnancy and birth next time, if you did?

Btw
I really don’t recognise the comments on here about NCT. Was not like that in South London 14 years ago!!!.
I did NCT first time round and a hypnobirthing course. Niether vilified CS or other interventions. Was very factual actually.

I also had a very practical and factual doula.

I didn’t end up with a CS but had plenty of other interventions due to PE and slow labour. That baby was not ready to come out!!!!

2nd time round I didn’t have time for NCT and decided hypno wasn’t for me. However I did have a fabulous doula and did a mindful birthing course and pregnancy yoga, as well as local involvement with a breastfeeding charity.
Mindful birthing was far more realistic than hypno.
mindful birthing and yoga were really practical. The teachers facilitated group chats about birth and new borns. On the courses there were new mums, 2nd timers and 3rd timers. Loads of experience to share!!! Realistic experience rather than theory and idealism.

This is such a hard thing to read. I was booked in for induction at 42+1 (42 being a Sunday). My daughter was born at 41+6. I was lucky and your AMA makes me realise how lucky.

My sister in law had a still birth at 39 weeks. It’s the most awful thing. All I can do is send you lots of love.

I think it’s very variable depending on the NCT person you get. Ours wasn’t ‘woo’ but she was very odd.

Deciding against the induction wasn't the cause of your precious baby loss. I was 39yrs old and 4th time pregnant with baby boy...I would've 💯 refused the induction too had I gone over ..but unfortunately I lost him at 39 wks 5 days. Absolutely no idea what caused it and my pregnancy was straight forward. So please don't think refusing the induction caused it, some things happen for no reason at all.

If you look at the NCT website you’ll be able to compare their claims re their ethos to some of the personal experiences here. Many of us have found that there is a discrepancy between the two. Also them changing their name. But you know all this.

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's not your fault.

I had an appointment with a renowned private obstetrician a few years ago. He told us that the NHS safe limit of 42 weeks was an absolute travesty. He was irate about it - he said that those guidelines were dangerous and misleading. You are one of many women in the UK who would have been unaware of the increased stillbirth risk. The existing safe limit seems to due to cost rather safety.

This thread is absolutely heartbreaking. I am so sorry for your loss. I think you’re doing a wonderful thing sharing your story. Nothing but gratitude and sympathy from me.

My first child was an emergency c-section at 32 weeks after I experienced reduced movements. I was determined to have a natural birth the second time round. After reading this thread it’s made me question why. I think I almost felt like the c-section didn’t count. I wanted to prove that I could give birth naturally.

I signed up to a hypno-birthing course and completely believed that my body would know what to do. I refused to be induced. At 15 days overdue I went to hospital with strong contractions. As soon as they examined me they hit the panic button. Everyone came running and I was taken straight into theatre for an emergency c-section. It never occurred to me that I was putting my baby’s life in danger by refusing an induction.

You’ve been very brave by sharing your story on here. I am so sorry for the loss of your darling daughter.

I am 18 weeks pregnant with my first baby (as my username suggests!) and I am absolutely terrified of miscarriage or stillbirth despite having not had any losses before - I'm spending all my time googling, chatting to chat gpt and spending a fortune on private scans for reassurance. How did you make it through your subsequent pregnancies without going mad with fear that something could go wrong again? I am so sorry for what happened to you, it is unthinkable and I am grateful to you for posting about your experience.

I lost my 4th baby and when I'm asked I say I got 3... it's just a natural response as I have the 3 with me....but my friend always mentions my baby it's so sweet...she includes him and it means a lot to me as he is acknowledged. Depending on who I'm talking to in the conversation I do end up saying well I would've had 4 but I lost one....and some responses are just heart warming...like he will always be your baby ❤️ so do mention your friends baby it will mean a lot to her.

It’s an incredibly small risk increase between 41 and 42 weeks, from 2:1000 to 3:1000.
it’s just terribly awful bad luck, I don’t think your decision making was at fault.

I have no questions, but I think you're brave to post this AMA and maybe it will help other pregnant women. Your daughter sounds lovely.

I read an interview with a woman who had lost her first baby to SIDS many years earlier. She said there was a kind of peace in knowing that she had done the best she could with the information she had at the time. I hope you have that peace as well.

I don’t know if this might help in some tiny tiny way OP but my son was born at 41+6 and they’d actually postponed it later but then changed it again as it was Christmas . So I guess what I’m trying to say is that medical professionals made the same decision you did on my behalf.

Thank you for the thread, OP. for you and for your lovely daughter.

You do realise that that risk change applied to all babies born in a year would mean an increase in stillbirths of about 650 a year? And if you assume approx 20% of approx 650,000 births annually are after 41 weeks (82.8% in 2021 were before 41 weeks) then it’s 130 more stillbirths. And that’s not including the increased risk there is for babies born at 41 weeks from 40. I would never look at an increase of 1 in a 1000 for something massive like a stillbirth and imply that’s minor when it’s avoidable and so very life changing.
OP, I commented earlier but failed to say I’m so sorry for your loss, and thank you for sharing your story.

I'm so sorry. You cannot blame anyone for what happened least of all yourself x

I had 2 gel induced births at 36wks due to big babies. I didn't even think about whether it was the right thing to do or not, I just followed the medical advice. Neither were without issue but both were successful.

I suspect anyone thinking about birth has a few options these days - CSection (recommended by most gynaes), wait and hope nature takes its course eating curry as much as poss or be induced. None of these options are without risk or pain, so I advocate that it's the pregnant persons choice unless, like me there's a medical reason for the intervention.

I was just thinking I wouldn’t be reading this thread if I were pregnant. It’s good to be informed but it seems it’s just causing you anxiety. Know that on MN people are more likely to post their negative experiences than positive. Easier said than done but googling can just lead to a spiral of negative thoughts as you read more and more negative stories. Try to be easy on yourself. All the best!

I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I feel the push for induction really depends on county. I had my first baby 8 years ago, wasn't offered induction until 42 weeks. With my 2nd I went into labour naturally at 40 plus 1, with my 3rd I went overdue and the midwife said she can't book me in until 40 plus 12! Luckily I had him at 40 plus 5.

There really should be a blanket approach across the board

I'm so sorry this happened to you!
It must be hard not to think what if..
But just to say as I'm sure many people have, I had the opposite experience. My baby and i nearly died due to completely unnecessary induction that I just agreed to as a first time mother because I just did what I was told.
A complete cascade of medical interventions as the induction just was not working fast enough.. during which my baby became very distressed and I need an emergency section. I almost died and had lasting health consequences. I really just don't think my body was ready to give birth.
Before the induction my baby was completely fine, I was fine.. the only reason the induction was done was due to guidelines about being overdue. And the guidelines vary massively depending on what year you gave birth in.. it was 41 weeks when I gave birth.

Birth is dangerous and things can go wrong regardless of what choices people do or do not make. You just do the best you can with the info you have in the moment.
Which is what you did. And unluckily things went wrong. But they could have gone wrong if you'd chosen to have an induction too. And as some other people have said there were times inductions weren't recommended until past 42 weeks anyway so you wouldn't even have been offered the option.

I am so sorry for the loss of your beautiful baby girl. That must have been devastating for you. And you were so young. Heartbreaking

I just want to say , for my third baby I was allowed to go overdue. He has only just turned 4 so this was late 2021. I remember saying to the consultant that I was only allowed to go over by 10 days over with my daughter . He said no 14 is fine, it gives best chance for a spontaneous birth. Well my baby boy came out sleepy, I had the toughest labour so I was exhausted. He & I slept for 8 hours straight. Nobody checked us. I tried my best to feed him next day but he was so sleepy. Told the nurses before being discharged but they werent worried and said hed come round. They were extremely busy and we definitely didnt get good care. Midwife came to visit at home next day, I told her that baby was barely waking and had had no wet nappy yet. Was only taking dribbles of milk. She sent us straight back to hospital and they eventually hooked him up to two drips. I think he would have died if it wasn't for a change of shift because the first paediatrician was about to send us back home. He said that we were both "just tired" All they gave me in labour was gas & air so I knew it wasn't a side affect of drugs. I think policy is now 7 days overdue before induction is recommended . My point is that you did nothing wrong OP - nobody pushed you for the induction and 2 weeks over was considered pretty much the norm until recently. I hope you don't blame yourself 💖

Thank you for sharing your story OP and I’m so sorry for your loss.

I think this thread raises some issues that I’m not sure are easily solved.

I’m coming at this from both the point of view of a doctor (with a husband who’s an O&G consultant!) but also a new mum who had a lot of things go wrong (pre-eclampsia, ante partum haemorrhage, prematurity, long hospital stay etc).

We obviously want women to lead the decision making process. But I wonder how fair that is on women - especially when something goes wrong. We’re often asking women to make a decision when they’re exhausted, scared, in pain etc (as is the nature of labour!) which is a less than ideal time to have in depth conversations to give informed consent.

During my labour we were asked about an intervention and I just could not make a decision - neither could my husband. This is despite, on paper, being probably better equipped than most of the general public to make that decision. We were tired, and scared. Ultimately a member of the obstetric team basically made the decision for us (I think they felt they could be a lot blunter with us) which was actually a relief - although I could see why another mother would find that abhorrent.

We have no way of knowing what would have happened if we chose differently. And that also extends to the clinical team. Yes the obstetrician might be able to advise if a negative outcome is more likely in a particular circumstance - but it’s still an unknown. It’s not unusual to get complaints from patients who feel that the doctor bringing up the risk of stillbirth/an adverse outcome was emotionally pressuring them to agree to an induction (which then led to intervention they wouldn’t have wanted). You also get complaints from patients saying the doctor didn’t stress the seriousness of any adverse outcomes enough and they would have consented to anything if they knew it was safest for baby. We naturally look at everything with the benefit of hindsight.

Like I said - I don’t know what we can do to improve this. Continuity of care is a big issue but also a very tricky one to solve (even in a well staffed, well funded health service people get sick, go on AL, have been doing the night shift when you go into labour at lunchtime etc). Making hypothetical decisions as part of your birth plan doesn’t really take into account how you’ll feel when you’re actually facing them (or all the endless variables).

I found essentially having no birth plan or expectations very helpful - but I’m coming at this as somebody who’s literally married to an expert, had no negative prior personal experience of labour and is comfortable in a hospital environment (professional experience both in obstetrics and neonates). I know for some of my friends it was a complete unknown and a birth plan was essential in making it less scary.

Ultimately I think we need to recognise nobody can predict the future and be kind to ourselves. We don’t know what would have happened if we chose route B. This also goes for those advising us (obviously examples of negligent/poor quality care aside). We can do everything ‘right’ and things still go horrible wrong (and there are also plenty of good outcomes when on paper their shouldn’t be!).

I’m so sorry for your loss OP. Your daughter sounds beautiful and you were trying to do the best for her, please try not to feel guilty. It’s not your fault, it’s the fault of those that gave you bad advice.

I agree with PP saying that the NCT and other proponents of natural birth are dangerous. Sometimes medical interventions are needed for very good reasons. I think those organisations focus too much on the experience of the mother and not enough on the safety of the baby. Women can feel failures if they don’t have the perfect birth experience, when all that matters is a healthy mum and baby.

I think you’re very brave to come on here and tell your story. If you help just one mother and save just one baby as a result, then what you’ve done is amazing. But I thinking you may be helping more than that.

Sorry I haven’t asked you anything! I just wanted to say stuff!

I have no questions for you OP but still I would like to say that I'm so, so sorry for your loss.

Could you expand on this? I'd be interested to know what you mean about the NCT's origins.