I'm an educational psychologist AMA

[thisisasurvivor]

Hello all

LA EP here

Ask me anything

What do you mean by ‘less engaged’?

How do you challenge your LA when they act unlawfully?

Have you ever written a report acknowledging EOTAS/EOTIS (with or without a C on the end) is required? If so, how have you challenged the LA when they think an inadequate package that does not provide a full-time education is enough?

Have you ever used “access to”, “would benefit from”, “regular”, “up to”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as appropriate”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “as required”, “as advised”, “key adult(s)”, “school staff”, “adult support”, “have available”, “high ratio”, “small group”, “throughout the day”… wording in your reports? If you are very rare in not doing so, how do you challenge the LA when they water down the wording?

Can I just say I’ve seen many EP reports in my job role and the poorest ones have usually been from private EPs who’ve been commissioned by parents. It makes me cross that parents have paid out hundreds of pounds for them. There’s little in the way of practical help and suggestions for next steps support so the parents and schools are often at a loss as to what to do.
My question is what are your views on identifying dyslexia? In my experience LA EPs are reluctant to do this and pass it on to the LAs specialist teachers to assess. By their own admittance they say it’s because they don’t have enough knowledge about it.

This is why it is important to use an independent EP who has experienced of the SEN system (and if there is any possibility you are going to use it for an EHCP/appeal to SENDIST, someone with experience of writing tribunal standard reports).

I would agree to an extent but if the LA Ed Psychs did their job properly there be no need to appoint a private report. As @BrumToTheRescue says its vital to appoint a tribunal experienced one. The worst reports I have seen are from ex LA Ed Psychs new to the independent sector or ones still working for the LA doing private as a side hustle.

Do you learn anything in your training about social constructs? What are your thoughts about all the diagnosis you give and this ideology in general?

@BrumToTheRescue and @User2346 have said, the way in which the reports are written is absolutely vital.

The first EP my son saw via the LA was a lovely person and totally understood my son really well. The report was absolutely useless though because there was nothing in there which was specific and quantified enough to hold the school or the LA to account. And it’s THAT that so many EPs don’t get.

I sat and listened to another lovely LA EP say “oh I never ever put hours in the plan, that’s up to the school.” No it fucking isn’t. The whole process is evidence based and EP YOU ARE THE EVIDENCE!!!

Thank you

Are you finding mainstream schools are less inclusive of kids with SEND (diagnosed or undiagnosed) ?

The worst reports I have seen are from ex LA Ed Psychs new to the independent sector or ones still working for the LA doing private as a side hustle.

With a few exceptions, I agree with ^this.

@Perzival is DS under community paeds or CAMHS?

OP has disappeared

Fellow EP here

I occasionally use phrases such as "would benefit from" in the narrative part of the report and then specify and quantify in the outcomes section.

Eg in description of need "Mary is currently in year 5 and reading at a year 2 level. Parents and school share a reasonable anxiety that she will need continued direct literacy teaching after secondary transition. Mary would benefit from additional literacy teaching in small group or 1:1 on a daily basis" in the narrative

In the outcomes it would be
"By end of year 7, Mary will be confident at reading and spelling all year 5 word list, and will have a reading age of at least 8y 6m"

"To attain this: Daily literacy support in a group of no more than 4 for at least 20 mins, with a focus on phonological mastery and comprehension of texts. Teaching should be undertaken by a HLTA or teacher who has specialist literacy teaching qualifications"

I have specified EOTAS packages including outlining a suitable curriculum.

The LA pays me for my opinion and mine is a fairly benign LA. Over the years the occasional recommendation has made them cross but I point out to them that if I make a highly unusual recommendation it's because it's a highly unusual situation (resi for a 9 year old was one such occasion. He had a little sister who had to be locked into her room at night and they had netting all up the stairs and landing as he kept leaping off the bannisters. That family was on their knees. He had had an EHCP and attended specialist since age 3. Severe LD and autism).

“To attain this: Daily literacy support in a group of no more than 4 for at least 20 mins, with a focus on phonological mastery and comprehension of texts. Teaching should be undertaken by a HLTA or teacher who has specialist literacy teaching qualifications”

This would attract no additional funding. And is almost impossible to monitor and enforce.

The money shot is in the hard recommendations :

Johnny needs 100 minutes per week of dedicated teaching 1:1 from a HLTA with qualifications in XYZ or a teacher with level x qualifications in XYZ.

Then the outcomes are written as a measure of the provision which you’ve specified; eg

”By the next annual review Johnny will have mastered skills XYZ as a consequence of the interventions detailed in section F paragraph x, where he will have 100 mins per week etc etc”

B is the description of needs

F is the provision to meet the need

E is the measurement of the success of the provision.

(all in section 9 of the SENCOP)

It is commonplace for LA EPs to not acknowledge EOTAS/EOTIS is needed and for LAs to try to get away with providing poor EOTAS/EOTIS packages in part because of the EP report not being comprehensive. It is brilliant if you have DrRuthGalloway, but it is absolutely not the norm.

You must also realise many EPs do not detail, specify and quantity provision, including including exactly what qualifications staff must have, at all.

This is the type of vague and wooly wording that sends parents to tribunals and engage private reports.

as @Ourdearoldqueen rightly says impossible to enforce and would attract no additional funding so no good to man or beast.

This reminds me when a SEN officer did an AMA and it didn’t go well. Think it got deleted.

If you are still answering questions I would love one answered please.

My son is 8 & has a genetic condition that affects him developmentally, cognitively & mentally.

He has a dyspraxia diagnosis & speech & language delay. He is waiting asd & adhd assessments.

He scored 72 iq in his educational psychology assessment. He is in mainstream & really struggling. Finds everything hard, and had a lot of school refusal this past year.

With his iq score & issues would you suggest a special school rather than mainstream? He is very good socially & that makes me reluctant to move him as he has lots of friends in mainstream. But unsure if it's unfair to leave him struggle with mainstream if special school would be a better setting.

Thanks!

So specifying daily teaching in a group of no more than 4 by a specialist literacy teacher to attain a reading age of at least 8y 6m is vague and woolly? Unenforceable? And attracts no further funding?

What the bloody hell would meet your exacting requirements for specificity?

Obviously this would be one outcome of many, not the entirety of the recommendations.

And would not be the only recommendation. It was an example.

We don't write outcomes simply in order to attract funding you know. We analyse a situation, work out what we think is needed and describe it. It's about getting the child's needs met. Sometimes that is expensive (eg EOTAS or resi) and sometimes it isn't (eg training a school staff to understand selective mutism).

Johnny will have x hours a day delivered by a HLTA. If it is not specific and quantified a complete waste of time!

It IS specified and quantified! It says that for the literacy issue - which would be one small part of the recommendations not the entirety of it - Mary must be taught in a group of no more than 4 for at least 20 mins per day by a specialist HLTA or teacher. And that by end of year 7 she should be reading at 8y 6m.

The difference between mine and yours is that mine is an example of a single outcome that is actually focused on a specific need to provide guidance as to what the TA must do and yours is just a vague provision of a TA with no specificity as to what the TA should do.

Wow. I did a second degree in psych with aim of being an Ed psych. I'm in a much junior role on about 1/3 of the salary now 😭.

Like a pp I can't attend a uni for doctorate as not one near me (and I have kids) and I'm so disappointed.

Any other role seems to be a fraction of the pay!

(sendiass recently was about £23k!)

For the training, EP is not particularly well paid. Top of scale is 65k, for those who have 3 discretionary spa points.