I'm an educational psychologist AMA

[thisisasurvivor]

Hello all

LA EP here

Ask me anything

@Gooseysgirl
But are these agencies engaging in any form of quality control with regards to quality of assessments and reports? I doubt it...

Agencies don't read reports. Why would they. They are private and confidential reports. Reports are sent directly to the LA and quality controlled from there.

Do you need at 2:1 to qualify?

Ed psych assessments are done in a familiar context (usually school) and will be triangulated - EP would usually look in books, speak to parents, teacher and the young person.

Clin psych cog assessments are usually done in a clinic setting and often with less opportunity for triangulation. As a broad average EPs tend to be more familiar with cognitive assessments as we use them more often.

Yikes! Don’t you think you have a responsibility to learn how to use assessments other than the BAS, so that you can select the most appropriate one for the student in front of you? Rather than just reaching for the BAS because it’s in your car boot?

Are remote EP assessments as good as face to face ones (Context: My LA want to do one for my son, secondary in AP after PEX with ASD and ADHD, safeguarding involved)

I feel that we are long past Covid times when remote assessments were somewhat acceptable. I always think that should a case go to tribunal, can the EP really justify the advice they’ve written for a child they’ve never met in the flesh? At the very least, their report should come with a strong disclaimer…

I’m an EP and carry out remote assessments. As part of the assessment I have access to all the previous professional reports, including schools, psychiatry, paediatrics, salt, social care, specialist teachers, camhs, EP etc. Basically whoever is or has been involved with the young person. I usually send out some screeners/ questionnaires to the child/ family and school.

I will have virtual meetings with parents and school. I will often complete a virtual observation of the child (depending on age) either at home or school. These work very well. I will gather the child’s views if they are old enough and have the language skills to do so. If they don’t I’ll think of other ways to gather their views.

Ive been an expect witness at around 4 tribunals and remote assessments have never been an issue. The quality of my work and formulation has never been impacted from not being about to sit next to the child. The tribunals themselves are remote.

The LA I work for relies on remote working from EP’s otherwise they would not be able to meet their statutory timescales.

As an educator my opinion is that people have no issue accepting different eye or hair colour but struggle with the idea that people’s brains can be different. There isn’t a rise in these conditions, we just have more understanding and research into how brains work. I work with a wide variety of NT and ND young people and I get frustrated with the misconception that they are diagnosed but don’t actually have the condition which is what I think you are suggesting here.

If there are any Ed Psychs on this please could you tell me what this Vineland Adaptive Functioning assessment means in terms of severe learning disability and functional skills? It percentile ranks my child in <1% on most of the domains. I take it this indicates severe learning disability as he is worse than 99% of the population? Be as brutal as you need to be as I know it is very bad. 😊 just want to check my understanding.

@Soukmyfalafelthey are normed for age, so your child is compared against other children their age (eg. 4 years 4 months). On the 1st percentile it means your child scored lower than 99 other children their age.

Thanks @circular1985 . I presume this means severe learning disabilities? I am certain my child has severe ID, but I am trying to get that across with this assessment at a tribunal and wondered if this was good evidence. We have been told he is too young for an IQ test and he would likely not be compliant or be able to answer the questions anyway.

Yes, that is good evidence. You could also ask your EP if they can administer the British Ability Scales Early Years version. That said, EPs can identify severe learning difficulties and describe the provision required to meet that need even without a standardised assessment. Best of luck 💐

@Soukmyfalafelhow old is your child? It’s really hard to say without knowing the background and other current factors. Was it only you that completed the Vineland or did someone from nursery / school complete it also?

What environmental factors?

Thanks for your advice everyone who has responded. It was an EP for the EHCP and it was for his special school placement (different tribunal which was won). My son is six but was four and a half at the time and had equivalent ages of about 8 months for both types of language. Was in the <1% centile on all major domains and 3rd for motor skills. This is for a different tribunal though. He has ASD and GDD (severe), PICA, SPD and likely ADHD. Not much has changed since then in terms of functioning either with more of a developmental gap looking obvious.

Are you told to deliberately keep assessments short and reduce provision by the LA as many parents suspect?

Absolutely not in my case. In our team, we often say that while we are employed by the LA, we are independent of the LA. I’ve written advices for four local authorities across my career and I’ve never received any direction from ‘the powers that be’ about restricting provision or even a hint at that being the case. And if anyone ever tried to direct me in that way I’d simply remind them of my HCPC responsibilities!

I write every advice as if I’d have to stand by every word at tribunal. I’m proud of my advices and I have received some lovely comments from parents about them.

I’d really like to think that every EP follows the same principle.

@Boucle sadly you are the exception not the norm. The LA reports I have had have been atrocious written vague and wooly designed for the LA to avoid giving my ds the support he needed. Luckily we could afford private and it breaks my heart that so many can’t.

The OP never came back.

I'm also an EP and agree with @Boucle
I have never been told what provision I may offer by any LA.

I have had some pressure to keep reports short for time purposes, but I told them I write what is necessary. They backed off.

We have spoken in this thread about the same thing. Unless it is specific and quantified then it is useless. I have seen hundreds of LA reports as a volunteer for an SEN charity and have yet to see one that is properly specific and quantified ie
Johnny must have 15 hours 1 to 1.
Sarah must be in a low arousal classroom with no more than 12 students.

NOT Johnny will benefit from 1 to 1 teaching or Sarah will benefit from a low arousal classroom environment.

if it’s not specific and quantified it doesn’t happen and that’s why parents resort to expensive reports from tribunal hardened Ed Psychs.

I can’t stand ‘will benefit from!’ (Or even worse - may benefit from.) It’s one of the first things I discuss with my trainees when they are report writing.

Sadly, it is unusual for LA reports to be sufficiently detailed, specified and quantified.

We already had this conversation.

15 hours 1:1 is not a smart target or an outcome.
Sticking TA time to a child without clarification of what that time is for was found to be ineffective during the Blatchford review (2009). It's exactly why recommendations were changed into outcomes when EHCP s were brought in. The outcomes are supposed to drive the provision not the other way around. I am surprised as a volunteer for an SEN charity you don't know this.

15 hours 1:1 is a provision. The outcomes are a measure of the success of the provision. Not the other way around. B—>F—>E

Your 2009 paper may well be clinically useful but the reports have to be written within the context of the current legislation which is from 2014.

Im surprised you don’t know this.