I'm an educational psychologist AMA

[thisisasurvivor]

Hello all

LA EP here

Ask me anything

Yep that's what I was saying. I can't access Ed psych training and any other post teacher SEND roles I've been looking at are early 20s...

With respect, you SHOULD write your recommendations with funding in mind because that is literally the only thing that makes any bloody difference.

Yes I do realize that. I have said I work in a benign LA and we are given a strong message that we need to be specific and quantify; not that I would be told otherwise! The LA does not want to spend money on tribunals.

I think not recommending EOTAS is probably a failure of initial training so people aren't really sure what is needed. Not that that is an excuse.

I have seen some very poor EP reports in my time.

And I’ll let you into another secret; once you have written your report, the only time it is EVER looked at is by the LA to see what your recommendations will cost them, and by the legal reps of the parents to see what should be enforced and if they are actually enforceable.

What do you think the differences are between an Ed Psych cognitive assessment and one a Clin Psych would carry out. I assume there’s some overlap, but when would an Ed psych assessment be more appropriate?

I stand by that a report must be specific and quantified to be of any use. I had wording like yours and school did nothing. It was only when I got the correct wording at tribunal that provision was delivered and even now it’s a constant battle
despite a solid EHCP with funding.

@DrRuthGalloway I would love to know what LA you work for! It is the exception not the norm from what you say.

Interesting thread but unfortunately the OP disappeared before I got to ask a question.

Not sure if you can help @DrRuthGalloway. Is it normal for an LA EP report to simply be a collation of existing information/reports? That's what DD's one seems like. It doesn't offer any new insights (psychological or otherwise) into her learning/development.

The narrative is well written and accurate, but I was expecting to learn something new whilst reading it but that wasn't the case.

We agree. My recommendation is specified and quantified. If you misread my post and thought it was intended to be the only recommendation in the whole report your beef would be justified.

And writing 100 mins a week as someone else said, rather than at least 20 min per day, would NOT be better because it would be much less effective to do a 100 minute session every Friday, for example, than doing 20 min every day.
If I want an intervention to run every day then I am specifying that it must be run every day. Not summing up the minutes to give a weekly figure.

The LA and school will total it up to give a figure so they can decide whether they can deliver that within the mythical £6k or bloody QFT. If the EP writes the provision in terms of 1:1 hours then there’s a chance it will be funded and therefore provided.

This is common in newly qualified reports. Reporting what other people have said, but not putting in any deductions or making it clear what the importance of this information is...the "so what" part of the report.

A good EP report should include information from others, new assessment information, and show real insight into the situation and how to ameliorate it.

@DrRuthGalloway I am pleased to see you acknowledging EOTAS can be expensive. Many LAs like to believe a few thousand is sufficient. Just like many LAs and LA EPs believe 5/10/15 hours per week is adequate. My LA knows full well how expensive it is and how many hours worth of provision it can be (I have 2 DSs with very expensive comprehensive EOTAS packages) yet my LA still tell other parents the package they are requesting is too expensive/it can only be up to £X (X isn’t even the same value. They tell parents different amounts.) and 5/12/18/25hrs. Similarly lots of LAs say it can only be maths and English, no socialising provision/sport/exercise/therapies/no resources/equipment/accessing the community budget, no professional time, no-one to provide oversight and co-ordinate the package…

I’m afraid the ignorance surrounding EOTAS goes beyond a lack of training. Some EPs (including a few independent EPs I have come across) believe all children should be in a school.

Obviously you are posting a snippet on a forum and not a report, so you may do so but the qualifications need stating. “HLTA” and “specialist literacy teaching qualifications” are not sufficient. In or out of the classroom? What ‘support’ exactly? “Daily literacy support…” doesn’t actually mean it will be direct teaching input which is what I think you are intending to say given your subsequent post of “must be taught in a group…” As it is currently written it could be someone sat at the child’s table for 20 mins of their English lesson not actually providing that much input.

Unless you are in one of the few LAs where SENDIASS is actually helpful, I would run a mile from SENDIASS. Many are as much use as a chocolate teapot repeating the LAs unlawful policies.

Yep and therein lies the problem. Well meaning dedicated EPs writing stuff which cannot/will not be delivered in the way they meant.

Community paediatrician, no camhs involvement. Inde slt and inde ot (via school- non maintained detailed in section f).

The ep/cp that did the wisc and nepsy is very well known for good tribunal reports (it was a fantastic report spec and quantified etc). I've been questioning whether ds should have the learning disability dx though, i think he may need it for transfer to adult services. I just don't know how to go about getting him assessed.

@BrumToTheRescue @DrRuthGalloway @thisisasurvivor

These are the wisc-5 scores. The ep/cp said they couldn't diagnose ds with learning disability but I have since been told he should be and it may be required for access to adult services. I'd appreciate your thoughts please

For a learning disability diagnosis one would need the Wisc scores which you have (needing to show FSIQ 70 or under - ish ) but also an assessment of adaptive functioning. The latter showing that in day to day life a child is struggling to the extent one would expect for an LD dx.
No need for another cognitive or different cognitive assessment.

happy to be corrected

@Perzival ask the community paed what team diagnoses LD in your area. In some areas, you would need a referral to CAMHS. In others, it is a stand-alone team. In some, it is a neurodevelopmental/neurodisability pead team. It is worth asking around locally too. You may even be able to find who diagnoses in your area via google.

General Learning difficulties is what EPs tend to identify (learning difficulties are defined legally in the Code of Practice for special educational needs and this definition differs from what some charities and health websites may say). Learning disabilities is the term used by health and social care, usually for people with an IQ below 70 (lowest 2 percent) but would also include functional measures.

The EP couldn't give a full scale score ("IQ") because there is too much distance between the lowest and highest cluster scores (must be a gap of 23 points or fewer).

However these scores are uniformly below average range to very low and assuming that he engaged well, tried hard and understood what was required to answer the tests (which I do doubt a bit given his score of zero on Similarities) I would have identified severe generalised learning difficulties.

Thank you @DrRuthGalloway @BrumToTheRescue and @Farmhouse1234

@DrRuthGalloway He has complex needs and was non verbal until about two years ago, he's in his teens now. We're all aware he won't be able to live alone and requires constant supervision for safety not behaviour, he needs help/support with everything. His nepsy 11 comp of instruction had a scaled score of 1. The tests were administered with his previous 1:1 there and he engaged well.

He is also hyperlexic and can translate nouns in many languages, he just doesn't understand the meaning of the word he's translating always. He knows what a chair is but wouldn't be understand jealousy for example.

Would you expect a teen presenting like this to receive a ld dx? I don't want to pursue a dx unnecessarily (time and energy) but if he does and it does help with adult services then it'd be worth it.

I would hope that social care would look at the range of scores and accept that he has learning disabilities

@Perzival thank you for asking this question, as I've often wondered the same thing but my DD is only 3 and no formal testing has been done yet. Hopefully she will have her first paed appointment soon and I will ask the question then.

@Ponche I wouldn't be asking or looking into it if I thought it wouldn't open up 'other' services. In hind sight if I could go back in time I'd have asked when we transfered from a statement to ehcp. Maybe ask for the assessment at your daughters ehcpna (assuming she needs one). Children change and shock the he'll out of us, don't let anyone tell you what she won't achieve- nobody knows, nobody can predict what she'll be or be able to do in five or ten years time.

If you feel she'll need an ehcp get on to it ASAP and research for yourself how it should be. It'll save you alot of time in the long run. Best of luck xxx

''For the training, EP is not particularly well paid. Top of scale is 65k, for those who have 3 discretionary spa points'' and this is why you have inexperienced EPs doing private work! The only EPs I know earning those £65k salaries largely have been qualified for years. New EPs only have to work 2 years in LA (if their training was gov funded) before they can start doing private work. Many new EPs have taken a massive financial hit to do the training in the first place... who can blame them for wanting to try and recoup some of this by going into private work as soon as they can 🤷🏻‍♀️ Agencies are falling over themselves at the moment offering well-paid locum work to EPs because there is such a huge shortage. But are these agencies engaging in any form of quality control with regards to quality of assessments and reports? I doubt it...

@Blisterly
I'm an EP and do part time LA work and part time locum work. I work term time only and 2 days locum and earn minimum 70j-80k. There's huge demand