I am a submissive woman, married to my Dominant. We practice 24/7 lifestyle D/s.

[BellaDelBosco]

A fellow mumsnetter suggested it would be interesting for me to post an AMA and here I am.

I ran a search in previous AMAs and I believe this subject has not been tackled. There was a previous thread from a male submissive and a tradwife but I do not think there is one written by a submissive woman. I mean, there was a poor masochist sub who tried to start a conversation but did not quite go to plan and she did not come back on the thread. I hope this attempt will generate an interesting discussion and I'll be able to dispel some myths.

The context: I have been married to my Dominant for over twenty years and we are still very very much in love, in fact we are totally enthralled by each other. We met in an unusual setting but not specifically BDSM-oriented. I had previous experience and it was I who suggested this setup, which was really clarifying and expressing a dynamic already present in our relationship. We had couple counselling, read books and we still work at our relationship every day.

Why this could be interesting: BDSM references are more and more present, in TV programs and social media. There are whole series dedicated to it (Netflix Bonding) It's relatively easy to gather experiences from professionals in the field, esp. Dominants, but to hear the true voices of people who have made this as a lifestyle choice throughout the years it is harder. There are also false narratives of BDSM that are portrayed by erotic literature but, again, the lived experience of real life couples is different. My life is very similar to an ordinary life in many ways but it has also some not ordinary aspects, that I am willing to open up.

My boundaries: this is what we call a 'hard limit': I am going to respond to questions related to sexual habits only in a very broad, general way as 1. this is not the place and 2. it is mainly a relationship style, and it is a spiritual relationship, the sexual aspect is a byproduct and a means of communication of other aspects. I am also not going to respond to DMs. If you have questions please ask on the thread. Finally, another point of interesting discussion could be how this lifestyle has brought us to be still so happy together through the decades when many marriages and in divorce within a few years.

The timings: I live a structured, busy life so please do not be alarmed if I'm not responding immediately.

edited as I caught a typo.

I am not talking about a sexual orientation, I am talking about the OP’s specific hot mess.

You have said on this thread you view yourself as a feminist.

Please, answer my question as to whether the uptick in very young and naïve women entering these dynamics concerns you.

There has been a surge of men, thanks to certain media that have used BDSM as a cover to beat, rape and abuse women.

Porn also plays a huge part in this. Are you concerned at all about our young men watching harder and harder porn, and thinking that BDSM porn is real life?

Are you at all concerned that men have dodged prison, having strangled their partners to death, and citing BDSM sex games as their defence?

I thought of another question OP (apologies!).

Would you be happy for your DD to have this kind of relationship, with her as the submissive - knowing how some dominants can exploit their position?

Or do you think a more egalitarian relationship would be preferable for your DD?

Please set aside any concerns you might have about social acceptance, I’m interested in your answer solely as it relates to whether you’d see a dom/sub dynamic as healthy and desirable for your DD?

Thank you!

I mentioned DDs possibly having this relationship earlier, and would OP/DH be happy, but was ignored.

But it’s possible to ask questions and challenge or convey a different viewpoint without being disrespectful / disparaging / demeaning / outright rude though.

It’s ironic that some posters are claiming concern that the setup isn’t healthy for the OP while at the same time being deliberately rude / sarcastic / insulting, etc. So what’s the real motivation? That’s not concern for the OP.

I’ve also seen multiple posters having a pop at OP’s writing style, sneering that it’s beige or too flowery or ‘the kind of writing where the poster thinks they’re intelligent and good at writing but just uses long words for no reason’. So much of the tone is just bitchy. What’s her writing style got to do with anything?

@PrimaDoner

What’s her writing style got to do with anything?

It's an indication that she's given far too much thought to the subject and is trying to intellectualise and justify what is actually a toxic relationship dynamic. But she defends being treated like a dog because "have you read the works of such and such philosopher?"

People also started being rude and disparaging when OP started with her teacher tone dictating to everyone. Throw in some nonsense about kneeling on cushions and asking permission to buy anything over a fiver and people are going to take the piss.

I agree. I could not see myself in a same-sex relationship, but that doesn't mean I can have a go at or denigrate those who have such a relationship.

Yes, that would be homophobia Being gay or lesbian is not a kink or a fetish. Wanting to order your partner around, or needing to abase yourself or follow made up rules which most people find ridiculous, is not the same thing as being homosexual.

I think kink stuff is for the bedroom and that's fine, but sex people (as a pp amusingly called them) always seem to want to proselytise about it! The "dom" here seems to want his wife to bang on about the "lifestyle" on Mumsnet and thinks we should be given reading lists for our education.

👏🏻

I think Big D should come on and start his own thread. Perhaps OP can make it one of her special little requests to him. Would be good for him to have a think about his actions and can count as one of their "debriefs"

Good morning all, thank you for the continued engagement and the questions. I have a fairly busy day today because we are rolling out a new process that I need to learn myself before teaching it to my team. I am going through the questions in order so I'm going to ask you for a bit of patience, there is a lot of you and there is only one of me.

@Creamcheeseplease, 'You actually refer to yourself as a slave? I just visualise South Park'

I am not familiar with South Park so I'm unable to comment on that. 'Slave' is the conventional term for a submissive person in a full time D/s relationship, known as Master/slave. There are lots of nuances, and archetypes, at play in these relationships, Raven Kaldera in their book on paradigms of power analyses quitea few of them, such as CEO/COO; 1950s, Medieval servitude (think knights and the round table) - it's a great book and a few dollars/pounds/euros on kindle, I'd really recommend it if you want to know more.

I find the use of the word slave in this context really offensive, actually. Throughout history (and still today) millions of people have been slaves, meaning they have no rights or freedoms at all. Many have died as a result of the abuses they suffered. To use it to refer to your "kink" or whatever shit turns you on undermines their experiences IMO. You aren't a slave, you're a middle aged woman in the suburbs reenacting your childhood trauma.

I just have such strong secondhand embarrassment, I can’t even convey.

The OP thinks it’s fine because she’s namechecked Hegel and Marx. I agree with you, though.

It's not nuanced. It's offensive.

And no fucking thank you to the book recommendation.

trying to intellectualise and justify what is actually a toxic […] dynamic

The irony – this is literally what you’re doing.

Here are some of the comments on OP’s writing (p17):

Poster 1: I'm sorry but your style of writing is like nails down a blackboard. Why so flowery?

Poster 2: I don't find it flowery, just sort of beige. Wallpaper-y.

It’s really not that deep. It’s just bitchy. Or are you actually trying to ‘intellectualise’ this? You didn’t even write it, why do you presume to know what the posters were secretly thinking (and in no way actually saying)?!

I think criticism and challenge is fine, but sneering and insults are just sneering and insults.

@SpidersAreShitheads, thank you for your long post, your measured and kind tone and your questions.

I appreciate you coming back to answer some questions more directly. Some of your previous answers didn't really answer what was being asked, nor provide any real insight.

My initial comments were meant to give the broader context and I was trying to establish the realm within which I was going to answer, my interpretive lens so to speak. I have come to realise that I was starting from an unhelpful position because people do not accept the premise of my existence as valid. My comments were not giving insights to you, and others, because you do not share the starting premise; in other words I was telling how to drive a car when you do not believe the car exists, or if it does, it's roadworthy. You see, I am used to discuss these matters in D/s circles so I am taking for granted quite a lot. I should have started with simpler, and more anecdotal examples.

I think this also leads to a bigger problem, i.e.: I am supposed to answer questions about my lifestyle choice, which I am happy to do, but some people question its reality at all. Think it this way: 'I am a Buddhist monk, AMA' Ama response: 'Buddha's writings are spurious'. It is impossible for the Buddhist monk to answer to this question because she believes in the Sutras so the conversation either gets stilted or goes into the realm of ancient manuscripts philology.

You said earlier that you were determined that after your history of DV, you were determined to have an egalitarian relationship but with your current partner, it just became a power battle and was clearly not possible. Because you loved him you resolved this by giving him the control he wanted, but you say that it was something that was also better for you too. Can you see why this would be alarming for many women to read?

Well, no to be honest. I think personal stories of couples being aware of their struggles and resolving them, are positive ones.

It's as if the dynamic between has only developed because a controlling man wanted to control you? And because of your history of trauma and violence, it could have felt safe and comforting to you because it was familiar (albeit different)?

I can see why you may adopt this narrative but it forgets a very important point: I have been actively seeking a D/s dynamic before and lived one for three years prior, and had some other short flings in between, all organized under power exchange terms. I have come to realise that this is how I love people. Love in the sense of relationship, the love I have for my friends/family is pretty egalitarian, but to get to real emotional, sexual and romantic love intimacy, I need power exchange. I also thing that there is a massive difference between 'controlling' and 'power exchange' i see it as having recognise something latent in my partner and helping him harness it in our life - please note he was already my top sexually so we just broadened this up in our life, according to negotiations, communications, not one stone was left unturned. If all couples did the work we did/do I am convinced they'd be happier. So, yes, I consider myself a positive role model.

Also, you have said that your hard boundary is not discussing sexual practices and I respect that. But can I ask, how do you view your dynamic? As a lifestyle or a sexual identity? Because in your post just above you've described it as a sexual identity but the rest of your comments imply it's a lifestyle?

It is a relationship choice and a lifestyle that stems from my sexual identity and orientation.

I had a very close friend who was very into shibari, and had a DD/LG dynamic. She was in one of the exhibitions at FetFest (I think that was the one anyway). So I've seen this type of dynamic up fairly close and personal. It feels all very sexualised, even the "non-sexual playing" has an erotic overture, even if it's not overtly sexual. I am biased as I met a group of others in my friend's community and the men were overly familiar and handsy. Sleazy, if I'm honest. I wasn't impressed and it left me with a poor impression of what goes on, and the type of men who like to hold the D position.

This is your lived experience and I, of course, fully respect that. I am not sure if this requires and answer or comment? Maybe I can say something about the sex aspect? And definitely, sex is very present, the whole life may seem eroticised, but I feel this is because the emotional closeness is so strong. I feel happier, more present in every way. I also feel more compassionate, closer to people. Less judgmental. More understanding.

Just a couple of other questions that have popped up from this thread.

Punishments - you're obviously not comfortable discussing these in any meaningful way. Is this because punishments are sexual? Are there any non-sexual punishments - and if so, can you give an example? Can you give an example of any situation (non-sexual) where you've had to use your safe word to decline?

For punishments, please have a look at my previous answers. Right, I hardly ever use my safeword but I've just used it recently for something kinda trivial but it was important to me at the time - it was about an act of service I did (not sexual) and my D type was being ungrateful and passing unconstructive criticism about it. I said 'I'm gonna call red on this' and just roared my emotions out, which was in hindsight, not helpful. Once the emotion was out we discussed it all and we reconciled. I'm happy to get more in details with this but I'm also conscious of the time.

How would you feel if your partner said he didn't want to do the whole Master/Slave thing any more and just wanted a regular dynamic? Or how would he respond if you said the same to him? Do you think your relationship would survive, given how you described earlier how he tried to be too controlling with you when you were supposed to be in an egalitarian relationship.

This question is hard to answer because we have been living this way for a long time and I do not think either of us would want out. I think a real answer here would be very much context dependent: would we still want each other? I feel probably when we are older things are going to change, but I do not know how - I feel though that this 'not knowing' is part of the beauty of life.

Is this even a serious question. A man or woman posts they are subjugated. Treated like a thing. No personal autonomy. Humiliated. And says they love it

amd everyone is supposed to go that’s awesome, crack on then?

On slave - yes it is a contentious term. I did not invent it though. Already in Roman times there was the concept of 'love slavery'. It's an old feeling, that one. And the term is used in many ways, is the song 'Slave to love' by Bryan Ferry offensive?

I would like to point out here to the work of Mollena Williams Haas, a feminist black woman who identifies as a slave. She is also living 24/7 D/s with her husband, the contemporary composer Friedrich Haas.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollena_Williams-Haas

And, as a reminder: you get to ask me questions and you are free to have any opinion you want on me but you do not get to define me or control my narrative, that's my prerogative (well, and my Big D but I have given that gift to him).

This is all the time I have this morning. More later, when I can.

Look at the difference in politeness and tone when a male submissive has started a thread in 2018.

Look and think. Really, really think.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/3305419-Im-a-male-submissive-ama?reply=79405696

Oh pack it in OP. At first I felt sorry for you, but your posts this morning now just come across as pathetic.

Could it be that your style of writing is really grating? Really, really think.

There are also historical power dynamics at play…men have not been historically oppressed by women. But women have by men. We used to be property of our fathers, then of our husbands. “Our” money didn’t belong to us, it belonged to our husbands. We were not legally allowed sexual consent in our marriages. It’s a slap in the face and a step backward 100 years.

Can you really not see the difference with what that guy posted and the stuff you’re posting?

@PrimaDoner

Eh? I'm not fussed in the slightest by all the waffle either from you or OP. She's inviting judgement and derision.

would like to point out here to the work of Mollena Williams Haas, a feminist black woman who identifies as a slave. She is also living 24/7 D/s with her husband, the contemporary composer Friedrich Haas.

Do you think that dynamic is in any way typical of feminist black women? Or that some of them wouldn't find it extremely problematic for anyone to be role playing slavery as a lifestyle choice? What is the relevance to the point pp made about the offensiveness?