Hello, I'm a TRA - ask me anything

[AlphaTransWoman]

Good evening,

I'm a transgender rights advocate. I say "advocate" rather than "activist" because I believe in constructive debate and consensus building rather than the hostile, shouty kind of activism that gets us nowhere.

I am here because I am genuinely interested in seeing if there is some kind of compromise that can be reached between pro trans and gender critical views. Obviously this is difficult because we may disagree about something pretty fundamental. I feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense), so there's an obvious divide if you do not.

The question is, can we find ways to co-exist and find an acceptable way forward on some of the difficult issues that arise around trans acceptance? So I'm happy to have a go answering anything you care to ask in good faith. Who knows, we might even make some progress.

OK

you believe some people with male bodies are women

if it's not because of their 'temperament', what is it that makes them women?

this is a fundamental shift in society you're supporting, you must have thought it through, right?

If that is a reference to Star Trek, then no I don't. I'm not quite sure what you mean, but whatever it is, I don't see any analogy which would be along the lines of what I am suggesting. I don't see the borg as sympathetic characters whereas my trans friends are among the loveliest people I have ever had the pleasure to meet.

If you are not making a Star Trek reference, then the word is one I am not familiar with so you may have to explain. Apologies.

We have already pointed out to OP that some of his views would be considered transphobic, is that what you mean?

fyi, being 'lovely' doesn't make you a woman (or indeed a man)

Sorry, what I meant is that why would trans people all have the same thoughts, ideas and beliefs?

@devondad1 "Borg" is a shorthand for a undifferentiated mass with no room for individuality. It's not meant as an insult based on the fact that the Borg are usually the baddies in their originating TV show.

This comment is 100% accurate. I do believe this is the case.

Deep down, I know I am a man. I don't know why I know that and I do think it goes beyond genitalia, but I don't think it has anything to do with all those assertive traits that were mentioned earlier, because don't have them. I don't understand why I know I am a man and not a woman, but I do. I love being a man.

And when my friends tell me that they know they are a woman or a man, even when this does not conform with their body, I believe them. I don't understand it, but I don't have to.

It is a fundamental shift in society, you're right. I don't know the answers to all the problems, which are myriad, but I am sure that we can find a way through if people are supportive and understanding. This isn't the first fundamental shift in society. It may be the biggest, but it isn't the first. As a society, we survived the others.

I agree.

Rather than being a more rational reason why men can become women, 'I dont understand transgenderism, but they're lovely people, so lets go with it' using the same rationale as the OP.

It assumes womens role is to nurture and prioritise men above their own needs.

do you understand that people with female bodies face challenges and have needs that people with male bodies don't?

off the top of my head, how many people with male bodies:

• have been subjected to FGM
• have been subjected to the husband stitch
• spent time in a magdalene laundry
• are not allowed to attend school in afghanistan because of their sex
• died in childbirth

do you see that maybe people who are at risk of those things need a word to describe themselves @devondad1 ?

Precisely! We are on the same page.

I am not criticising the OP for her views. I am simply expressing concern that they may be considered typical and I don't think they are.

Trans people are people and they come in all varieties. Their thoughts, ideas and beliefs are as many and varied as they are, and we must remember that. My only fear is that some people might not realise that and may come away from this thread thinking that all trans women are only trans because they are nice and emotional and cooperative and like looking pretty.

Some are all those things, but I don't think that makes them trans. I'm all those things and I'm definitely not trans.

@devondad1

There is one thing all women have had in common across the whole world, in all cultures, for all time and that is their sex.

There is no way to 'feel' like a woman. They just are because of their sex. The same way as you 'just are' a man because of your sex.

This is not going to fundamentally shift. Ever.

There is no transwoman who shares anything with all women that doesn't also include men is there. Can you name one thing?

If you ever get a transwoman to explain what makes them a woman, It always, always comes down to hair, clothes and makeup. Always.

'I definitely think we should change the law'

'I think we should do it on the basis of wibbly wobbly feelings'

You want to reorganise society based on a feeling that some people just know, that has no definition and no basis in anything measurable or demonstrable? No thanks.

Meanwhile, we have spectacularly failed to reorganise society to take account of the unavoidable, measurable, demonstrable, physical differences between the two sexes, male and female. Which have been used to the detriment of women and girls since time immemorial by patriarchal societies. Hmm.

And that is an important point that needs to be part of the dialogue, though I hope that other fundamental shifts in society are making those issues increasingly less common, and that's something else we should all be working together on. We've still got a long way to go, but I believe we can do it.

I work in global public policy and have a tendency to aim high.

I managed to read to page 9, but I can't read this self absorbed drivel anymore! You are a man, i'm sorry you feel uncomfortable in your own skin, but that doesn't give you the right to demand that everyone should deny what they can see with their own eyes, it doesn't give you the right to tell women that they don't matter while you prance around pretending you are one of us, as to me that is exactly what you are doing. The bottom line is what you feel is on you, it is not up to me or anyone else to validate YOUR feelings!

I never said wibbly wobbly, but I like the term. 😂

Many female posters on this board consider themselves women because they are adult females and this alone is what makes them female. We belong to a category that is determined by sex. We think this category is important for the purpose of ensuring females/women can be included, respected and protected. The moment you, OP, are included in it, it ceases to be the same category.

Many on this forum believe that the only limitations/ restrictions/ expectations that should be experienced as a result of being an adult female (women) should be those that occur for immutable sex-based reasons.

We fully reject any gendered expectations and we want the impacts of being female - both the biological and the gendered expectations addressed (take a read of Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez).

In light of the above, do you not see how undermining your stance is of our position. It's not a matter of being unkind, bigoted or deliberately excluding. Suggesting TWAW compromises what we are seeking to achieve for females/women. It is about what we want for women (females) it's not about trans people.

Reading your posts, I have a lot of empathy for you and I do think that more needs to be done to ensure you can live in society free of stigma and distress. I'll happily join campaigns for third spaces and to try and obliterate gender norms and expectations so males and females are not limited or damaged by them . I will also support more research going into treating dysphoria, so people don't have to live with the crippling effect of hating their sexed bodies.

What I can't accept is a single category of people that includes me that is based on gendered expectations. I want to abolish gendered expectations and so absolutely refuse to be in a category that imposes them on me.

I don't think you should have to endure stress, humiliation and risk by being forced to use male spaces and to be simply viewed as being in the male category (despite this being the case, I know this is distressing for you). However, the solution must not involve females/women having to endure stress, humiliation and risk from males being included in our sex-based category and spaces.

And that is an important point that needs to be part of the dialogue.

What dialogue? You mean the women who are crowd funding to help other women sue employers who have made their life hell just because they know that there are two sexes, sex is immutable and sex matters, even though this belief is already protected in law?

That dialogue playing out the courtrooms as women claw back their rights that people like you are happy to throw away?

'important part of the dialogue'

'less common'

you're a fool

read this

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/oct/11/fgm-ban-in-the-gambia-under-threat-as-calls-grow-to-repeal-law

tell you what, come back when 73% of women of childbearing age (ooh, what can those 2 words mean?) in the Gambia haven't had their clitoris and labia cut off

so you do think the law should be based on feelings?

idiot

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

He works in global public policy so will already be away of this. Just doesn't care I guess.

I am not advocating throwing anything away. The discussion will be had. I am saying it should take into account all of the points that are being raised.

Right. The sun is out and my son asked me to play football. My only intention on this thread was to make clear their are many different factors at play. I am mainly on Mumsnet to talk about schools, but thank you for the lively exchange of views on something a bit different. Have a good day everyone.😊

@devondad1

And that is an important point that needs to be part of the dialogue, though I hope that other fundamental shifts in society are making those issues increasingly less common, and that's something else we should all be working together on. We've still got a long way to go, but I believe we can do it.

I work in global public policy and have a tendency to aim high.

You're also being incredibly condescending towards the women on this thread who are telling you about their own experiences of sex-based issues.

I find it very telling that you seem to have empathy and compassion in one direction only - towards the man who wants to redefine the meaning of 'woman' so that he can shoehorn himself into it. We, the women, are telling you that this hurts women. Are you listening? Are you fuck.