I’m a vicar: ask me anything!

[Holyannie]

Hello,

I’m a Church of England vicar in a semi-rural context. Ask me anything! (Weddings, funerals, Christenings or anything about what a vicar does day to day). 🙂

How do you square the maniacle violence in the old testament with a loving god?

God ordered the slaughter of whole populations and commanded that virgin girls be taken alive.

Genocide surely?

Thank you for all these questions! I think I’ve answered them all: I’m sorry if I’ve inadvertently missed some. I will come and check back later to see if there are any more. 🙂

Big question! Firstly I think it’s over simplistic to state that the Old Testament God is all violence and Jesus in the New Testament is all mercy and niceness because we see a real loving, merciful God in parts of the Old Testament and Jesus says some pretty shocking and controversial things in the NT! And it can end up being quite anti-Jewish if we say “Old Testament God = bad, New Testament God = good”.

You’re right, though: there are some terrible parts of the Bible (slavery, violence, genocide) etc that no sane person would condone. I think we have to take it in the context of the ancient Near East and look at what life was like back then, and compare it to other ancient texts from that time (Babylonian, Egyptian etc) so that we have a better understanding of the socio-historical context. And then we look at the overall narrative arc and themes, which are of hope, love and mercy rather than taking small parts of it literally?

If you would read 'Bible believing' as not accepting of LGBT does that mean you don't consider yourself to be Bible believing? Do you mean that you can't believe the Bible and be accepting of LGBT relationships? And if you don't believe the Bible, how does that work with being a vicar?

@Holyannie can I just say I would definitely come to your church. I have loved this thread. Your answers are thoughtful and very informative.

And do you believe that only God can forgive them?

For example if a man who was convicted of sex abuse against children, or murder or rape, came to see you after he was released from prison, how would you cope with that?

If he tells you that he feels guilty and repentant etc, do you have to believe him and accept him into your church as an equal to all the other parishioners?

I doubt anyone could ever excuse someone who has committed such crimes, or even tolerate being near them, and I wouldn’t have thought you’d be any different just because of your role within the church?

Are you allowed to not want to be around Ex-criminals who commit such horrific crimes, or are you expected to treat them like you treat everyone else?

I definitely believe that the Bible is the word of God and that holy scripture is one the biggest sources of truth, along with reason and tradition (I’m a good Anglican like that!). But there are some parts of the Bible I don’t take literally. For example, I don’t believe that God created the world in seven days, 6000 years ago. I take the scientific view that the world is millions of years old and that we have evolved from other more primitive species, but I believe that process was guided by God, the creator.

Similarly, I believe that the passages in the Bible about women and gay people are influenced by the ancient context in which they were written and that we have to read them from that vantage point. So yes, I do believe the Bible but not in the way that some more conservative Christians do. I actually think the way they read the Bible is wrong, and is influenced by enlightenment and post-enlightenment thinking, and that when we see how the Church Fathers and the early Church read the Bible they read it more allegorically.

The main thing I don't understand about theistic evolution is this: death is necessary for evolution, but the Bible says death didn't come until the fall of man. How would you explain that discrepancy?

Good question. Although we are told to forgive, I think it must be almost impossible in some cases. Although there are some inspirational examples, for example Mina Smallman who has said that she forgives the man who murdered her daughters.

If someone joined the church who was a serious safeguarding risk, such as a convicted paedophile, we would put procedures in place to protect the congregation. For example we might say he could only come to a service that children didn’t attend or designate someone to be watching him at all times throughout the service. My personal feelings about that would be a struggle, but it’s for God to judge not us so I would try not to judge them, but I’m not perfect.

That’s a tough question. It seems like death and decay are part of the cycle of life here on earth. Probably I have friends from more of a science and theology background who could answer that question, but to be honest I don’t know. What was God’s original plan, before the Fall? Wouldn’t the world become too over populated if nobody died? To be honest I wonder about that sometimes.

Yes, I've wondered the same about the fall, but I think God knew Adam and Eve would sin before he made them. Personally, I believe in Genesis 1 literally. To me Genesis reads like history, it's not poetry like the Psalms. But I know there are differing views on that. Do you believe other parts of Genesis are literal history- for example Cain and Abel, Abraham and Sarah etc? If you do, how did you decide which bits of Genesis to take literally and which bits not to?

You’re right that Genesis isn’t poetry: it has lots of Hebrew prose features like the waw consecutive, but it is also very stylised. It uses features like patterns of seven and chiamus in a poetic way, to make a very intricate form of prose so I would see that as quite different from, for example, the prose of Deuteronomy.

I don’t think I can take the story of Cain and Abel as the whole truth because who on earth was Cain’s wife? There must have been other humans on earth at the time. Although with DNA we know that humanity can be traced back to a few primitive humans, so it may have been a very small group of people. But I don’t think it was just one family. l have no problem believing that there were an Abraham and Sarah, although they are predominantly mentioned in later biblical texts.

I think we start with the genre of the specific text. Is it written like a historical record, in the style of other historical records from the time such as Sumerian or Hittite king lists and inscriptions? Or is it more mythic, for example like the Epic of Gilgamesh?

But I should say, just because something didn’t literally happen in the way it is described in the text doesn’t mean it isn’t true. There is deep truth in the biblical texts. But we shouldn’t read them like science textbooks because that’s a category error.

Are you a priest? The Anglican church I attended had a rector and he was a priest. The associate rector and the curate were also priests. We called them eg. Father Jack, or simply Father.

I don't understand what the difference is, how some are called vicars and some are not. (is it to do with how High a church is?).

Hello, yes I’m a priest. The vicar or rector is generally the incumbent of the parish, which means they have responsibility and are in charge. The associates, curates etc will also be priests but won’t be in charge. Priest is kind of like doctor, whereas vicar is more piece GP: it’s one of the jobs that a priest can do.

It has been an interesting read all though, @Holyannie , and thank you for doing this. I've learned a bit and thought a bit and while it doesn't change my views much, because I am an aesthete who adores the CofE's buildings and the King James Bible/Cranmer Book of Common Prayer, and the wealth of music composed for worship, and I think the Commandments are a sound guide to a moral life, I don't get the faith. I think I live a life in synch with the tenets of Christianity in that I don't commit any of the sins forbidden, because that's the right way to live, but I don't seem able to develop a passion for it.

I have a terminally ill child. I would genuinely love someone to explain the logic here to me

I don't have a vicar as a parent but I did have 2 Christian parents who encouraged confirmation. At the age of 11 there was the offer of confirmation, along with about 5 of my peers including my best friend. I told my parents and vicar and Sunday school teachers that I wasn't ready to commit to being a Christian so I declined.
I actually decided for myself a few years later to commit publicly to my faith so it is possible that an 11 year old would say no. Also there is nothing to say that this conversation needs to happen at that age, I know lots of people who were confirmed as adults.

@Rifalo , the decline of a terminally ill child must be the saddest possible post anyone on MN can read. We can't help your child, but we are here for you and your family.

The BCP is so beautiful, isn’t it? “World without end…” gets me every time. I think you’re probably closer than you think you are. A lot of Christianity is so dissolved into culture, it’s sort of like water vapour: you’re so immersed in it that you don’t notice it’s all around you. I think that’s changing, though.

Do you believe in everything that's written in the Bible?

I’m so sorry, Riaflo. I don’t think there is any logic to it at all. I don’t think there’s much I could say on this thread that wouldn’t sound trite in the face of what you and your family are going through. If you would accept my prayers, then I pray you and all whom you love would have strength, comfort and courage at this time.

Not all of it in a literal sense. Please see previous comments.

Hopefully a little more light hearted than some questions -

Do you have a favourite service of the year? Do you enjoy Christmas day or just spend the day running round services like a mad woman?

Who picks the Sunday's hymns? And do you have any that you can't stand? Eg. 'One more step along the world I go' for thr 5th wedding in a row.

I like the cut of your jib @Holyannie and I suspect you are fun at at a party too. Dissolved into the culture is how I feel about Christianity. It is correct, moral behaviour and would mostly be correct in Judaism and Islam too, because all three hold broadly similar views of right and wrong, regardless of what you should eat and when. I would specifically exclude radical Islamic views of religious correctness here.

That read shockingly contrary to what I meant to say... I can accept, but not agree with, a puritan Islamic take on life if people want that, but I don't believe they do because of the repression it imposes on women who hold up half the sky... as says the old trope. Repressive Islam/Talib views don't seem to connect with the women in Iran, or Saudi Arabia who are finding their voices.