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AMA

I'm a wedding registrar. AMA

185 replies

kardashianklone · 17/07/2022 10:13

I'm a wedding registrar working across several boroughs. Summer is peak wedding time but we've been busy since coming out of lockdown. I've seen every type of wedding and behaviour you can imagine. Here to help with any questions! AMA!

OP posts:
MrsGluck · 03/08/2022 13:12

The people's professions don't have any bearing on the validity of the marriage. They are recorded for historical purposes. Marriage records are an important source of historical information. By recording the professions, we are creating records for future historians and, as noted upthread, for the descendants of the couple researching their family history.

kardashianklone · 03/08/2022 13:30

sorrymoaner · 03/08/2022 11:51

Interesting thread but also makes me feel that I’ll never get married in Britain with all these rules. Not originally British so that’s probably why so much stands out to me :-) For example, what has my father’s and mother’s profession got to do with my getting married? I find it patronising (borderline sexist – presumably x years ago it was only father’s profession that was requested, and they added mother’s to be less offensive?).

And super strict rules on the number of people in the room – other than for fire reasons, why? Not being allowed a glass of champagne in the same room? These rules just seem to be for the sake of it, but not for any sensible reason – have I missed something?

Also very surprised to see that a marriage certificate would list that someone’s been married before. What’s the relevance? Ties in with the British title ’obsession’, kind of ’let’s point out that this person has ”failed” before’.

And the many rules around what music you’re allowed to use and not mentioning God! There are many hymns that are quite un-god-ly. It feels so restrictive. A question to the OP: does all of this make you feel a bit like a ’police officer’ rather than someone who is there to provide a service for a couple on a happy day? Do you think these rules are restrictive and do you discuss amongst colleagues options to make things less restrictive or do you like it the way it is?

What’s the minimum cost to get married? I found that there’s a £35 fee to give notice but then found on an unofficial site that you should expect £1000 for ’paperwork and ceremony’ – sounds insane but presumably not all of it is necessary?

Re Married at first sight: I can confirm that in Denmark and Sweden people absolutely do get legally married (I would assume they also sign a prenuptial agreement so that they’re not forever linked – and yes prenups are 100 % legally binding). In both countries, you can get married anywhere, you don’t have to be a ’licensed venue’, so no issues with strange locations not being legal. There have been ceremonies in hot air balloons, on planes, anywhere you can imagine, and it is very popular to have outdoor weddings in the spring and summer (great to hear that outdoors ceremonies are kind of allowed in some places in England now, but don’t understand the reason why the location matters at all).

In Sweden information about where people live and their marriage status is public knowledge, so very often people watching MAFS will look up the people on the show online and check their marriage status – since the show’s normally aired 6-8 months after being recorded most are already listed as ’not married’ (you’re married or not married, no other categories exist) :-)

(Getting divorced is a one-week procedure that costs about £60-70 to the court. In Denmark you just log on to a web site and tick a box asking for divorce, takes about 30 seconds, that’s it! In Sweden you still have to sign a paper manually ;-) )

I'll try and answer some of your points as best I can! :)

Mother's and father's profession doesn't have anything to do with getting married, and you can choose not to include it on the documents if you prefer. It's for family history purposes, so down the line, your descendants can look up your family history. For many years, just the father's profession was recorded (because we live in a patriarchal system), but now happily mother's are included to. I think it's great to have that chance to include parents (if you want) on your marriage documents.

The rules regarding the license of the venue- these rules come from England's rich and varied history. Civil ceremonies (i.e. not in a church) first became an option in England and Wales under the Marriage Act of 1836. You can read more about that here: www.qualifiedgenealogists.org/RQGNews/blog/civil-marriage

The qualifying criteria for a venue to be licensed include:

Your venue and any linked outdoor area must be:


  • appropriate for weddings and civil partnership ceremonies, for example, a hotel, stately home or civic building.

  • a permanent structure, for example, it cannot be a tent or marquee

  • readily available for weddings and civil partnerships, for example, not a one-off ceremony, or a home or place of business.

  • non-religious and with no religious connection, for example, no religious symbols, furniture or stained glass windows showing a religious scene, unless you're applying for a civil partnership ceremony.

  • freely accessible to the public so that anyone can attend the service or make objections.

  • any linked outdoor area must not exceed in designated capacity figure the capacity of the largest certified room located within the venue, even if that outdoor area may hold a total capacity of a greater figure.

And then obviously and restrictions around fire, safety etc.

The marriage certificate listing that the person has been married before, personally I don't think that has anything to do with the concept of failure, but more to do again with family history. Previous marriages may have ended in divorce, but also death. Pretty useful to be able to track names in a country where tradition often means the woman changes her surname. We also have to make sure we are not enabling someone in committing bigamy! You can look here to find out more about how family history works in documentation: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/778094/Marriage_certificates_leaflet_Web.pdf

www.theguardian.com/news/2007/apr/14/guardianspecial4.guardianspecial211

The 'not mentioning God'- well, that's because it's a civil ceremony, not a religious ceremony, and also, because that what the Church has dictated. You can still choose to have a religious ceremony if you want, and many couples will have their legal civil ceremony with the registrars and then have their celebration in whatever faith they hold. You can read more here about why the Church does not allow mention of God in a civil ceremony here: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/16/religion.civilliberties#:~:text=So%2C%20the%20reason%20you%20can,and%20responsibility%20for%20interpreting%20God.

A snippet from the article above: "In 2005, the government published a consultation document on proposed changes to the current guidelines. "The religious organisations who responded were unanimous that no readings from religious texts should be allowed, even if they did not directly refer to the deity." The Catholic bishops were totally against allowing religious texts to be used. "Through secular use their particular religious meaningfulness can be diminished," they argued."

Do I feel like a police officer? No, not at all, I think it's a great honour to be part of someone's special moment, and to make that moment happen. Most registrars want to create a happy, special and loving environment, we're not looking for ways to be difficult.

The cost of a ceremony varies depending on where you choose to get married. If you go to a registry office, then it's a lot cheaper than going to a venue, like a fancy hotel and having the registrars come out to you. Different people have different budgets. For example, one of the London Boroughs does a very cheap package, giving notice is 35 GBP and 155.00GBP for a ceremony. It can be as cheap, or as expensive as you want. Different places, and venues, time and day chosen can all affect the price. Have a look here for examples of different costs:

www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/advice_and_benefits/Births-deaths-and-marriages/Register_office_fees.aspx

www.rbkc.gov.uk/marry-me-in-kensington-and-chelsea/marriage-and-civil-partnership - look under 'How much our ceremonies cost'.

Of course, if you choose to get married at a 5 star hotel, then you are going to pay for: venue hire, catering, service, flowers, photographer, videographer, make up artist, rooms for the wedding party, music, taxis plus the cost of the registrar coming out to the hotel etc. Or maybe you choose a cute 'blank hire' venue and you dress it yourself with your home made decorations and mates who play music from spotify onto the speakers and you get cupcakes from the supermarket. Cost is....what you want it to be. But the cost of the legal part- that will vary from place to place, as you can see from my links above.

OP posts:
sorrymoaner · 03/08/2022 13:54

@ Plumtreebob – I may have misunderstood the information above, I read it as if the OP had to force anyone carrying alcohol into the room to remove it from the room (‘serving champagne to people before the wedding in the same room’) – that reads, to me, as if guests were not allowed to have a glass of champagne, so nothing to do with the people getting married getting drunk?

@OP - thank you very much for taking the time to comment! Pleased to see that it is not mandatory to include parents’ professions. I still find it patronising and sexist and would prefer it if getting married might not mean some people feel uncomfortable, which some may, if someone asks or it is assumed that you want that to be included – or if someone queries why they are not listed. It makes the whole institution feel unequal to me – I’d say many people would feel happier/prouder if they were able to list ‘brain surgeon’ than ‘cleaner’ so I’d just like to remove that potential discomfort.

I completely understand that there is a rule for what a ‘licensed venue’ can be, but given that this rule originates in 1836 I’d say that it is completely irrelevant today if ‘any linked outdoor area exceeds in designated capacity figure the capacity of the largest certified room located within the venue…’ etc – so why not just remove it? What purpose does it serve?

Family history – most of the things that were hard to find 100+ years ago can be easily found today, so I’d say there is less point in including this today. Equality issue again.

Re the costs – I only meant the mandatory costs, so the 35 pounds for ‘notice’ etc, not interested in any optional costs! Thanks for the links (I checked two boroughs and they didn’t have that information easily available) – I can’t believe you’d have to fork out around £1,000 for a relatively modest affair!

And I completely appreciate that you want to make it a wonderful day/moment – not querying that for a second, and I’m sure you do a great job :-) Still, some of the aspects you apparently have to check (relating to aspects that really, today, have little or nothing to do with safety/security/legalities) make it sound/feel a bit police officer like to me :-)

kardashianklone · 03/08/2022 14:46

sorrymoaner · 03/08/2022 13:54

@ Plumtreebob – I may have misunderstood the information above, I read it as if the OP had to force anyone carrying alcohol into the room to remove it from the room (‘serving champagne to people before the wedding in the same room’) – that reads, to me, as if guests were not allowed to have a glass of champagne, so nothing to do with the people getting married getting drunk?

@OP - thank you very much for taking the time to comment! Pleased to see that it is not mandatory to include parents’ professions. I still find it patronising and sexist and would prefer it if getting married might not mean some people feel uncomfortable, which some may, if someone asks or it is assumed that you want that to be included – or if someone queries why they are not listed. It makes the whole institution feel unequal to me – I’d say many people would feel happier/prouder if they were able to list ‘brain surgeon’ than ‘cleaner’ so I’d just like to remove that potential discomfort.

I completely understand that there is a rule for what a ‘licensed venue’ can be, but given that this rule originates in 1836 I’d say that it is completely irrelevant today if ‘any linked outdoor area exceeds in designated capacity figure the capacity of the largest certified room located within the venue…’ etc – so why not just remove it? What purpose does it serve?

Family history – most of the things that were hard to find 100+ years ago can be easily found today, so I’d say there is less point in including this today. Equality issue again.

Re the costs – I only meant the mandatory costs, so the 35 pounds for ‘notice’ etc, not interested in any optional costs! Thanks for the links (I checked two boroughs and they didn’t have that information easily available) – I can’t believe you’d have to fork out around £1,000 for a relatively modest affair!

And I completely appreciate that you want to make it a wonderful day/moment – not querying that for a second, and I’m sure you do a great job :-) Still, some of the aspects you apparently have to check (relating to aspects that really, today, have little or nothing to do with safety/security/legalities) make it sound/feel a bit police officer like to me :-)

Alcohol in the ceremony room itself invalidates the terms of the license to which the venue has agreed:

2.14 Food and drink may not be sold to or permitted to be consumed by persons gathering for the purpose of the proceedings, or during the proceedings (save for non-alcoholic drinks consumed prior to the proceedings). This condition applies to the immediate area where the ceremony is taking place, rather than to the venue as a whole at that time, thereby not prohibiting the sale of food and drink to be consumed elsewhere or as part of other events at the same time at the venue.

(Taken from: www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-registering-a-venue-for-civil-marriage-and-civil-partnership/registrar-generals-guidance-for-the-approval-of-premises-as-venues-for-civil-marriages-and-civil-partnerships-accessible-version)

Here's more information on how venues can get the license:
www.theweddingsecret.co.uk/magazine/wedding-venue-licensing-how-does-a-wedding-venue-get-licensed/

There are considerations to move towards very old laws around venues and licensing, however these things take time! :
www.lawcom.gov.uk/centuries-old-weddings-laws-to-be-overhauled-under-new-reforms/

OP posts:
Plumtreebob · 03/08/2022 15:44

@sorrymoaner - I think anyone who has had to try to access legacy systems or filings even from 10 years ago would be able to tell you how difficult it is to find things again. Family records have been kept the same way for centuries making it much easier, I agree adding the mothers details was a great step, more information about matriarchal lines is most welcome. Our descendants will likely be grateful we’ve carried on the tradition of solid record keeping and they aren’t having to scrabble around to find archived copies of 80yrs old Facebook pages to trace family history.

sorrymoaner · 03/08/2022 15:55

@kardashianklone - thanks for clarifying the alcohol issue - my view that it sounds pointless stands :-)

Great to see that things may be changing! The issues listed on that web page would definitely make it a more equal procedure, and remove certain unnecessary aspects.

I'm wondering how you and your colleagues are talking about it? Do you see some rules as unnecessary (since you apparently don't mind 'policing' anyone sneaking in a bottle of beer :-) ) and what would be the first thing you would change if you could?

@Plumtreebob - although I do have an interest in my family's history (have information about one branch going back to the 15th century! Many ministers, that helped!), I still don't think that potential aspect outweighs the issues around equality that I see in the current system. If there is a lack of records, I'd say let's create a system that is not dependent on potentially making a wedding procedure uncomfortable for someone else :-)

(I'd also say it's currently easier to go to archived internet information on wayback machine for example than going to paper copies!)

kardashianklone · 03/08/2022 16:34

sorrymoaner · 03/08/2022 15:55

@kardashianklone - thanks for clarifying the alcohol issue - my view that it sounds pointless stands :-)

Great to see that things may be changing! The issues listed on that web page would definitely make it a more equal procedure, and remove certain unnecessary aspects.

I'm wondering how you and your colleagues are talking about it? Do you see some rules as unnecessary (since you apparently don't mind 'policing' anyone sneaking in a bottle of beer :-) ) and what would be the first thing you would change if you could?

@Plumtreebob - although I do have an interest in my family's history (have information about one branch going back to the 15th century! Many ministers, that helped!), I still don't think that potential aspect outweighs the issues around equality that I see in the current system. If there is a lack of records, I'd say let's create a system that is not dependent on potentially making a wedding procedure uncomfortable for someone else :-)

(I'd also say it's currently easier to go to archived internet information on wayback machine for example than going to paper copies!)

Tbh it's not something I really talk about with my colleagues, we are too busy getting on with the actual job. Part of my job is to make sure the terms of the license are adhered to, so this means no alcohol in the ceremony room, so no, I wouldn't allow a guest to sneak a beer. If I did, it could invalidate the license and potentially the marriage could not go ahead. I understand your view is that it 'sounds pointless', however, that's somewhat irrelevant when it comes to the law!

OP posts:
NoEffingWay · 03/08/2022 16:53

@kardashianklone if there was a bar set up for after the wedding (all in the same room) would you recommend hiding it behind a screen? It would be almost impossible to set up afterwards!

kardashianklone · 03/08/2022 16:59

NoEffingWay · 03/08/2022 16:53

@kardashianklone if there was a bar set up for after the wedding (all in the same room) would you recommend hiding it behind a screen? It would be almost impossible to set up afterwards!

You could have a bar set up, hidden behind a screen, with the strict understanding that staff may not serve alcohol during the ceremony, no alcohol should be on view, and guests should not be able to help themselves. Any concerns, just ask the venue and your registrar for clarification 😀

OP posts:
NoEffingWay · 03/08/2022 17:01

The temptation to surprise everyone with a bar afterwards would be brilliant! I'm going to have to think of an inventive way to hide the booze 😂.

Autismhelp0 · 03/08/2022 21:49

Hi @kardashianklone I have a question about my own wedding that is really worrying me.

When we booked a registrar, I was legally going by a different surname to my birth name, since booking I changed it back by deed poll to my birth surname, I'm due to give notice soon. Will this be a problem for me? I have the relevant documents and a passport all in my new/birth name. But because I booked in a different name, I'm worried about it?

I hope this makes sense and that you can put my mind at ease for the giving notice appointment.

Thanks x

kardashianklone · 03/08/2022 21:56

Autismhelp0 · 03/08/2022 21:49

Hi @kardashianklone I have a question about my own wedding that is really worrying me.

When we booked a registrar, I was legally going by a different surname to my birth name, since booking I changed it back by deed poll to my birth surname, I'm due to give notice soon. Will this be a problem for me? I have the relevant documents and a passport all in my new/birth name. But because I booked in a different name, I'm worried about it?

I hope this makes sense and that you can put my mind at ease for the giving notice appointment.

Thanks x

That should be fine, as long as you have proof that you have legally changed from one name to another, and you have proof of ID.

I had a famous actress once who gave her stage name when she gave notice and realised she needed to give her real name during the interview, that was fine, she just showed the relevant paperwork.

OP posts:
sorrymoaner · 05/08/2022 09:27

@kardashianklone That's a pity, would have been interesting to hear what you think about these (completely apart from the fact that you obviously need to follow the current law), given that you're in the business!

(And it surprises me that it is possible to have any job without thinking about how it works/what could be improved/how it should change!).

But great to see that there may be changes under way that may remove some of the pointless aspects of the procedure/law - at least some more people in the know seem to agree with my view :-)

DPotter · 05/08/2022 12:28

sorrymoaner

And it surprises me that it is possible to have any job without thinking about how it works/what could be improved/how it should change!

What a strange thing to say - actually it comes across as snide and unpleasant.

Kardasianklone has been very open and helpful throughout this very interesting thread. I'm sure she was being discrete and observant of confidentiality in answering your previous passive aggressive questioning.

I'm sure if we were to hear from an equivalent person in Scandinavia (where I assume you come from originally) we would find things we thought odd, so maybe the more appropriate answer would have been along the lines of - Isn't interesting how different countries have different processes and traditions around the same legal service, rather than impugning Kardashianklone's character and intelligence.

frustratedacademic · 05/08/2022 15:28

I agree, @DPotter, it's like a dog with a bone. I, as a dabbler in social history am very thankful to have marriage (and birth and death records), even the census so derided by the self-defined bien-pensant, as being an unnecessary interference of the state.

BeenthereGotTee · 05/08/2022 16:46

sorrymoaner · 03/08/2022 15:55

@kardashianklone - thanks for clarifying the alcohol issue - my view that it sounds pointless stands :-)

Great to see that things may be changing! The issues listed on that web page would definitely make it a more equal procedure, and remove certain unnecessary aspects.

I'm wondering how you and your colleagues are talking about it? Do you see some rules as unnecessary (since you apparently don't mind 'policing' anyone sneaking in a bottle of beer :-) ) and what would be the first thing you would change if you could?

@Plumtreebob - although I do have an interest in my family's history (have information about one branch going back to the 15th century! Many ministers, that helped!), I still don't think that potential aspect outweighs the issues around equality that I see in the current system. If there is a lack of records, I'd say let's create a system that is not dependent on potentially making a wedding procedure uncomfortable for someone else :-)

(I'd also say it's currently easier to go to archived internet information on wayback machine for example than going to paper copies!)

Did you say you were not English so will not have experience of researching in the UK? I'm curious about your choice of the word "ministers" - again are you talking about your own country or another? eg Scotland

(I'd also say it's currently easier to go to archived internet information on wayback machine for example than going to paper copies!)

I'm not sure what you mean by that bit above? In most areas there is a 100 year limitation on what you can see online or even more depending on what country you are dealing with. England is difficult and expensive to work with compared to other countries eg Scotland who have had this format in marriages since 1855.

extrapineappleonmypizza · 05/08/2022 20:36

Can we get back to the glitz and the glamour?!

OP - are you married? If so, tell us about your nuptials!!

kardashianklone · 05/08/2022 21:15

extrapineappleonmypizza · 05/08/2022 20:36

Can we get back to the glitz and the glamour?!

OP - are you married? If so, tell us about your nuptials!!

I'm not married but I know exactly what I would do if I had to plan it!

I would have the ceremony in the Fitzrovia Chapel which is deconsecrated, and they fill it with white candles in tall glass jars so the light sparkles off the stained glass. I would have strong smelling white lilies at the front, and a harpist playing Air on A G String by Bach.

I would wear either a gold Jenny Packham dress or a royal purple trouser suit from The Deck, with a cape style jacket. I would do my hair is big curls half up/down with some kind of sparkly decoration in it. I would have a bouquet made out of pearls and buttons and costume jewellery, maybe a few fake flowers in it. I would do a ring exchange but not sure about a reading.

I would maybe have just one bridesmaid but no flower girls or page boys, and no animals and no children. I wouldn't set a theme or a dress code for guests. I think either late morning or early afternoon is the optimal time, if you want natural day light for photos.

I have probably had too much time to think about this!

Then after the ceremony I think I would do champagne and afternoon tea/canapés at The Wallace Collection.

OP posts:
extrapineappleonmypizza · 05/08/2022 22:04

@kardashianklone Love it! Love it all!

DPotter · 05/08/2022 22:39

Royal purple trouser suit and cape jacket - wonderful !!

kardashianklone · 06/08/2022 08:47

A while ago I did a high profile wedding where the bride had rented her wedding dress, in fact she had a selection. I think this is such a brilliant idea and would recommend it. Because if you buy a massive dress, it's expensive, it takes up storage, it requires specialist cleaning, and it will probably fall out of fashion. I would also consider a rental dress, something beautiful that I wear and love for a day and then relinquish responsibility for it once it's left my life.

OP posts:
DeltaFlyer · 06/08/2022 09:21

My mum's dad died when she was 7 and then she informally took her stepfathers name. So say born Jane doe but known as Jane Smith.
When she married my dad the marriage certificate reflected that - something along the lines of Jane Smith previously known as Jane doe. They either lost or had to surrender it upon getting divorced but neither parent can agree on this.
When I was born my dad registered it wrong so my birth certificate has mothers maiden name listed as Jane doe so when I got married it was a real pain to prove I was who I said I was. I had to get a certified copy of their marriage certificate to go along with the paperwork as my birth certificate and mum's mismatched.
The registrar said that my birth certificate would be updated on the official record to reflect the correct information.
Do you know how they would actually go about correcting that error?

DeltaFlyer · 06/08/2022 09:23

Sorry should say Jane Smith as mum's maiden name not Jane doe.
So my birth certificate says mum's step fathers name as her maiden name not her birth name

kardashianklone · 06/08/2022 11:06

DeltaFlyer · 06/08/2022 09:21

My mum's dad died when she was 7 and then she informally took her stepfathers name. So say born Jane doe but known as Jane Smith.
When she married my dad the marriage certificate reflected that - something along the lines of Jane Smith previously known as Jane doe. They either lost or had to surrender it upon getting divorced but neither parent can agree on this.
When I was born my dad registered it wrong so my birth certificate has mothers maiden name listed as Jane doe so when I got married it was a real pain to prove I was who I said I was. I had to get a certified copy of their marriage certificate to go along with the paperwork as my birth certificate and mum's mismatched.
The registrar said that my birth certificate would be updated on the official record to reflect the correct information.
Do you know how they would actually go about correcting that error?

Hmm, does sound like a bit of a tricky one! I think this would fall under GRO, and personally I would want to follow up rather than just hope/trust it was done. I would have thought it might require a statutory declaration (but that's only my guess, I could be wrong, I don't have anything to do with changes of birth certificates). Have a look here www.gov.uk/correct-birth-registration/how-to-apply (scroll down for info on statutory declaration) and you can contact them here and then they should tell you once the correction has been made:

GRO (General Register Office)
[email protected]
Telephone: 0300 123 1837
Textphone: 18001 0300 123 1837
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 4pm

OP posts:
Bez727 · 15/11/2022 07:54

Hi,
I gave notice of marriage. I never changed my name legally so brought all my documents birth certificate provisional ect. They ask if I was known by any other names I presumed they meant just legally known by names but after googling it can mean other names your known. To friends ect and when I was at school I used my mums surname but never officially changed it to this. Is this going to be a problem I did ring registration service and the receptionist said that would be fine. I am not known legally anywhere as my mums surname and never changed legally? Did notice my daughters birth certificate says OTHERWISE known as with my mums surname so I’m confused what I should do?