Retired lap dancer- ask me anything

[yourprivatedancerEX]

It’s not something I tell new people I meet that for 10 years I used to be a very successful lap dancer. I have a very different career now but often reminisce about my secret lap dancing past, always with fond memories!
I think it’s still something that is frowned upon by many and in my view I think that’s largely down to being misunderstood. So if any of you have any questions I will answer them and hopefully give you some interesting insight into the secret world of lap dancing! Ask away.

Personally I'm 10 years out of lap-dancing; it's not "my" industry and I don't know if I would have called myself a feminist at the time. I had slightly more pressing concerns if I remember rightly.

Many industries are problematic. Many companies are problematic. 99.9% of the population are wage slaves to one degree or another, and the poorest/worst educated among them are the ones least able to be choosy.

As a pp said lap-dancing is a symptom, not a cause. All you would achieve banning it is a few thousand more women once again at a financial disadvantage and many more men whose once again channel their social conditioning either into pursuing other types of "professional" women (online porn, escorts, these things are arguably far more hardcore, or at least far less removed from it), or trying to get what they want from normal, "unprofessional" women. Which is bloody terrible for everyone.

So good luck fixing our social ills by once again disproportionately disadvantaging the few women for whom this is a viable job, at basically no benefit whatsoever to society.

There speaks the voice of privilege.

No, there speaks the voice of education.

I’ve never suggested banning it Roly, you must be confusing me with someone else.
I have merely asked questions and given opinions.

What do you suggest water? Just asking individual women to not do it, despite it being the best option in their eyes for themselves and their families? Or just asking them to feel really bad about it, whereas the guy who changes the printer paper in Google gets to feel A-okay despite Google's dodging god knows how much corporate tax in the UK?

As a pp said lap-dancing is a symptom, not a cause. All you would achieve banning it is a few thousand more women once again at a financial disadvantage and many more men whose once again channel their social conditioning either into pursuing other types of "professional" women (online porn, escorts, these things are arguably far more hardcore, or at least far less removed from it), or trying to get what they want from normal, "unprofessional" women. Which is bloody terrible for everyone.

Again, you seem to just be saying that men treating women badly is just an inevitability that can't be changed, so we have to give them lapdancing clubs so that they don't 'channel' things in other ways.

I don't really think an instant blanket ban on lapdancing clubs is the answer either. I think it has to be gradual, for example getting rid of grid girls in F1 (although I think they are going back on that now aren't they), or getting rid of page 3. Small but significant things which could change the way women are perceived by men in society. Its also why I don't agree with the total decriminalisation of prostitution (I'm more for the Nordic model), because I think it legitimises women as commodities.

I dont think there are any easy answers. But as I said upthread, the argument that men are always going to rape women so let's not bother doing anything to halt the objectification of women is such a cop out.

I really don't buy all this 'I had to do it to get myself through uni' bollocks. It's utter crap. Most people manage working in a chippy or pub a few hours a week

Small but significant things which could change the way women are perceived by men in society.

Have either of these things "changed the way women are perceived by society"? Have they?? What on earth evidence do you think there is for this? I would suggest things are worse, not better.

You know what, I've even found myself conflicted about the loss of lads mags and the like lately. Are things better now? Now that a teenager who wants to see a woman in a bikini, instead of picking up a men's mag, now going online to porn sites where throttling and gang bangs sit side by side with simple nudes? What better alternative do we have in society now than women, working safety under their own volition, men obligated to treat them with the utmost respect and earning the money to maintain their independence; what is the alternative in today's world of female objectification? Take away the product and you don't fix the demand.

I think we're going about this the wrong way to tackle the symptoms. The structural change needs to happen first, and the effect needs to trickle down. Picking fights with the emergent phenomena is not only manifestly pointless but hurts the women far more than those individual phenomena are responsible for.

I don’t think I’m really suggesting anything Roly. Just musing.

For the sake of the women who have no other choice than to work in the sex industry, it would be nice if those privileged women who do have the choice would acknowledge the harm they are participating in.

Or maybe find a different career.

"Men get all the important jobs and get paid more. And they manage to do it all without taking their clothes off to get their degree or whatever."

Moonkissed, when I was at university I knew two lads who worked as strip o grams, making the most of their rugby player bods One is now a consultant and the other is a GP.

For the sake of the women who have no other choice than to work in the sex industry, it would be nice if those privileged women who do have the choice would acknowledge the harm they are participating in.

This is the so arse-about-face. Do you just want certain women to feel really bad about how they make a living? Given that our choices were not made in a vacuum? Does every lap dancer have the same amount of choice? Should we feel more or less bad about it based on how much we objectively needed to do it? Ultimately, no one chooses their way out of capitalism.

I don’t want anyone to feel bad about themselves just for the sake of it, no!

I am saying that I would expect people with privilege, education and choices to be more careful about the choices they make than a person who has very limited choices.

Lap dancing is not the only job I would feel this way about.

You know what, I've even found myself conflicted about the loss of lads mags and the like lately. Are things better now? Now that a teenager who wants to see a woman in a bikini, instead of picking up a men's mag, now going online to porn sites where throttling and gang bangs sit side by side with simple nudes?

Why is it either or? I don't think that the rise in violent porn is because men can no longer get their kicks from looking at tits on page 3. The Internet has a lot to answer for on that front I think, I don't know though, it's an interesting one to think about.

Women don't have the entitlement to men's bodies that men do, they have survived for long enough without leering at men with their cocks out in a national newspaper. The question is why? Is it just because women and men are fundamentally wired differently, or is it because socially men have been brought up with the drip drip drip that women are nothing more than objects for their pleasure?

Like I said its a chicken and egg thing. I don't think we will get the structural change you are talking about whilst women are still objectified through lapdancing, glamour modelling and prostitution. And especially not while businesses taking their clients to lapdancing clubs to secure business deals is happening. Like you said, it's the symptom/cause thing, it's a difficult one.

No, every lap dancer does not have equal amounts of choice, that’s what i’m saying.

What better alternative do we have in society now than women, working safety under their own volition, men obligated to treat them with the utmost respect

Totally appreciate your views Rat and it’s been great to hear a feminist take on stripping from you but I take such issue with this - how can it possibly be called respect when a man literally buys a woman’s body for his own pleasure? He doesn’t give a shit about her, he just wants so see her (hairless?) labia - just because there’s a bigger, stronger man telling him not to touch, how could this possibly be respect for women? And ‘safely’ - there was an excellent post upthread about this idea of how safe strippers are because the club is protecting their best interests. So again, not safety because they’re concerned for you, safety because they’re concerned about their own reputation - so how safe would you be if the club were happy to turn a blind eye to a bit of touching?

men obligated to treat them with the utmost respect

Men who buy women in lapdancing clubs are not treating them with anything like what you could call 'respect'.

And everything 'pumperthepumper' just said as well.

The reason that lapdancing clubs have no touching rules etc is because it's in their best interests, not the interest of the women working there.

An obligation to respect sounds like a tautology to me.

Sorry, oxymoron!

Pumper nothing in your post is any different from any number of other non-sex-industry workplace. Except the "seeing her mine wasn't hairless labia". Now I appreciate that's a sticking point. Why should that be in demand? Why should that be a "product"? I get that, I agree with the principle. But you can call it respect and safety as much as you can in any job where your customers treat you respectfully because they want your product or service and your employer looks after you because they want you to keep working for them. That is how I can call it those things.

I would also like to say that I appreciate your views on this Rat as I appreciate your views on another certain topic in the feminist section I don't agree with you on most of it, but i always appreciate listening to other views, as I dislike echo chambers!

An obligation to respect sounds like a tautology to me

You have an obligation to respect the waiting staff if you expect to eat at your favourite restaurant.

Nice to hear Moon :) I'm feeling a bit out of sorts of late so I don't think I'm quite as erudite as usual (if I am ever) but I've been wanting to defend us lap-dancers on here for a while.

Although I'll be honest, I preferred it when the girls were swapping funny stories. Takes me back!

Well yes, but 'disrespect' towards a waiter in a restaurant would be a bit of rudeness, possibly stretching to verbal abuse.

'Disrespect' towards a stripper in a lapdancing club would probably be fairly serious physical or sexual assault, or rape.

'Disrespect' towards a stripper in a lapdancing club would probably be fairly serious physical or sexual assault, or rape.

That would also be disprect towards a waitress...

Well yes, but 'disrespect' towards a waiter in a restaurant would be a bit of rudeness, possibly stretching to verbal abuse.

And this would also be disrespect towards a lap dancer.

You'd get chucked out for either. It isn't par for the course that lap-dancer have to take more abuse from customers than waitresses. I never did.

But rat the very nature of paying a woman for your own sexual gratification shows a total lack of respect! You can argue and call it whatever you like once he’s there and forced to behave but the very nature of taking yourself into a strip club and paying a woman for her body shows such contempt for womankind.