To move DS1's school to avoid him getting excluded?

Probably because they’ve pissed everyone off at school…

And, just because they’re together out and about, they’re still socialising with others.

I think you are picking the wrong thing to focus on here!

No they sound like they have had no consequences to their actions. Op has been far to soft, don't blame neurodivergence here.

@stuckntired your sons need to be in separate schools, even well behaving twins need to be their own people with their own friendship group.

I bet they are referred to as "the twins".

Even if they are Year 11 from the sounds of it they won't have great outcomes if everything is left as it is. So you may as well try to move them to separate schools, maybe ask help for this school move from the school itself?

Repeating year 10 (for both) is also a great idea, if allowed.

Good luck (from a twin who is forever grateful to her parents for always making sure to go to separate classes /schools. I have my own friends and the best relationship with identical sibling thanks to this)

Talk about stable door and horse bolting - why oh why did the school(s) never split them up? I’m astonished because all twins I’ve known were never I the same class.
oh well, you are where you are.
change schools, never let them be in same school(or class if that’s impossible)
But having had them for 15 years I’m so surprised that you never reached out to twins networks for support (apologies if I missed this in your replies).
Never too late to start now. Separate them as much as possible. Enrol them in football, cut off their internet access, remove their phones, and properly play down the law. Parent them - it will be worth it for a few months of grief for the end result.

Is their dad around ? It sounds like they have absolutely no respect for anyone especially you . The school should not have to cope with this behaviour and I would fully expect them to be excluded. I can’t imagine there will be many schools willing to take them on. They need to get themselves into an apprenticeship or into work. They sound hard work and are definitely heading down a treacherous path.

@Thecomedyclub Enrol them in football? Will they go? I suspect not. They are in a very slippery slope and this won’t end well. Why they haven’t been separated long ago is a mystery to
me. Maybe they take after dad? Where is dad? If they have become so objectionable I cannot see how this can be retrieved. They will need to come to their senses but I suspect that’s not going to happen. I’d talk to the school about a managed move - to 2 schools! Not together.

Yes, OP said she grounds them but they just go out anyway.....

This. The school should have been onto this and found a way to separate them long ago.

I would look at sending them to separate schools. I feel like something has to give here. My only worry would be that they both might start refusing to go to school altogether.

They need to be separate, I think you know that.

Would you consider them spending every other day in the exclusion room?

So Monday DS1 is in the exclusion room, Tuesday is DS2, Wednesday DS1 etc?

If you do want to remove one I would try to remove both and send them to schools in the opposite direction to each other.

You could also consider college, you can attend from the age of 14. It would limit choices though as colleges usually only enter students for GCSE maths and English, occasionally biology which they take alongside a level 1/2 course.

I think you answered your own question- this should have been addressed and they should have been split up years ago, you can try to move DS1's school, but schools do talk to each other so they will know they are being asked to take on a bundle of trouble.
They both need friends an interestes outside of being twins- but I think you have left it too late to effectively deal with this situation simply.
Perhaps try therapy because their relationship is miles away from being healthy.

The games consoles would have gone years ago if my two DSs had behaved like this. And yes, School should have separated them.

Ultimately you’re reaping what you’ve sown. Never assume/hope thag kids’ behaviour will sort itself out. Parents need to sort it out with tough consequences if necessary.

Now they need to be split up, moved if necessary. Games consoles need to go. Behaviour must improve or the police will end up being involved. 13/14/15 is prime dickhead time for boys, and you need to address it directly now, not passively hope for improvement.

Remove the games while they are at school. Ask someone trusted to store them. If they leave the house and aren’t home when late report their absence to the police. If they miss a meal they do not eat anything nice later on. Lock away snacks if necessary.

Tell them clearly that their arsehole behaviour at school is not acceptable and ultimately will only harm themselves. The teaching staff will
move on each year to deal with a new class of kids and their ‘hilarious’ antics will be forgotten - while their poor academic performance will limit their choices, and only morons do that.

With teen boys you need to be very direct. ‘Do this - and this will happen. Wise up now and you can turn things around. If not, X will happen.’ And so on.

These dc do as they want so getting to other schools will probably end in school refusal. They definitely needed action before y11.

OP you need to apply strictness. That seems to have been the problem you have created all this by not discipling them Sorry but you need to stop them in their tracks. Be harder on them otherwise goodness knows what they will be like. Is their Dad around he needs to help out.

Op i think you should listen to this teacher. The mums above are being very judge mental, when you’re asking for help.

my advice to you is - firm consequences (money and WiFi) and each time they argue them the punishment time gets longer (eg two hours without WiFi becomes 4 etc) to stop them pushing. Coupled with rewards for what you DO want them to do (chores at home - quite basic ones eg make the bed and put your food away to start). If you can self refer to early help then a practitioner can help support you with this plan and also advocate for you and the boys at school meetings.

what you should be asking school to explore - have they put in place pastoral support/ mentoring? Someone to check in with each boy daily, set goals, agree behaviour contract etc? Can they get outreach support from the local PRU/AP? Very importantly - have they explored educational psychologist involvement? They 100% should have done as an EP would he well placed to consult about this.

you can also do a parental application for echp for them: it’s likely the LA will assess, even if they don’t end up with ehcp plans the reports from this process will be helpful.

you can search your councils local offer and your council’s SEND parents advice service for further support and advocacy. There may well be some neurodiversity but you don’t need a diagnosis to recognise this as special educational needs - the school would clearly need to use a higher than usual level of resources to educate them.

Also make yourself aware of the legalities about exclusions so you can advocate for them.

Op, by this point you are into damage control.

at 15 and behaving like they are taking phones etc has limited impact. You also risk them deciding you are a problem and being violent. Teens with this sort of behaviour can be spotted by drugs gangs and wind up doing drug deliveries as well. They’re easily groomed.

so focus on the end game.

ideally you want them not involved with drugs and vandalism/stealing bikes etc. so try to talk to them about paths forwards. They don’t like school (clearly!) but do they have anything they do like doing? Skateboarding, football, bmx, anything at all. If there is anything throw money and time at it. Support them. The more time they are involved in a sport/a hobby the less time on the streets.

yes, they are probably going to do badly in their GCSEs. Take that as read and start thinking about college. Resits are available - but what courses would they want to do?

if school exclude them (and they might) then theLA needs to provide an education and this might be at a PRU or tutoring at home. Very few schools accept new students into year 11.

This!

So many posters are working from a position of what they eould do, knowing it would work for them and their kids.

But OP and her boys are a million miles away from this.

Think of those boys who crashed the car going the wrong way down the A road, avoiding the police- that sounds like the kind of daft, utterly stupid behaviour we are talking about here, not boys listening to their mum or school.

OP, you have to speak to the LA or police about getting them into some kind of scheme to turn them round and away from a life of petty crime, anti-social behaviour or worse. Turning off the WiFi isn't going to cut it.

Honestly based on what've you said I would at least move one of them. I don't disagree with you that they're both heading for jail at the way they're going .

Id enlist the schools help here and they can tell one of them that they're excluding him so he doesn't blame you. ( even if they don't formally exclude him)

Nailed it. Turn the WiFi off? Oh please!
You need outside help. I don’t expect the Krays were model pupils. Keep banging on doors until you get the support you and they need.

Would another school actually want him though

I'm curious about your assessment here. If there are only two classes and one is a set below where the twins are performing, should the school separate one of them into a lower set?

I don't think the school has let them down - they are damned if they do and damned it they don't.

I know many twins who are in the same classes and are absolutely fine. A lot of this depends on the size of the school. If there are say 5 classes then this wouldn't be a problem. But as there are only two, what could the school actually have done?

The mum has said that the school have been good and have been given loads of support but with no consequences or parenting at home, surely the school isn't solely responsible?

The school is talking exclusion at the start of Y11 as it will have been that bad in Y10 and I would suggest from what the OP has said this is along time in coming. The school is starting the process and taking those steps because it is that bad (and let's not forget how difficult and expensive for the school it is to expel a student).

No, just very badly behaved.

Could you ask for the police to speak to them?