To move DS1's school to avoid him getting excluded?

I'm a teacher and an frequently frustrated by poor parenting BUT this family have been horribly let down by the school.

There's no way in hell we'd have identical twins who had anything like this dynamic in class together, and we'd have picked it up in Y7. We also wouldn't be talking about exclusion at the beginning of Y11. Good God. It's not like they suddenly started kicking off. This is a situation that's been let get out of hand.

I feel sorry for mum. Very much sounds as if she's been given barely any support and has been struggling to cope for a long time.

At this point, it would seem you're in alternative provision territory. The local authority have a responsibility to provide your sons with an education. It would appear home ed with tutoring support isn't feasible. You need actual answers about how your LA propose to meet their legal obligation.

So you took their phones away and then you give them back when they are "constantly on at you"... well, what do you think you taught them so far? Only that if they try harder to annoy you, you will give in. You must see that it is not a very effective way to discipline your kids.
You will have to start changing things. Take the phone away, tell them exactly how long you are taking it away for and specify what behaviour you need to see before they get it back. Then stick to it. It's really not that difficult. You just ignore their wining and swearing. And warn them that every swear word aimed at you will result in an additional day without a phone.
Start there and see how you get on. You have a real chance to at least make a dent in their behaviour before they turn into complete thugs and either one or both of them end up arrested for sexual assault.

If they didn't care then they wouldn't be 'on at you' constantly until you give in.

I think it's naive to think that taking away their phones etc is going to work. These boys are on the verge of criminality and would possibly find ways to fund their own phones. Teenagers like this are vulnerable to being picked up by drug dealers and then mum has no chance.

OP, I think you need and deserve some practical support - otherwise things will just get worse.

Where is their dad, OP?

If they fight and hurt each other let them

Learn how to block devices off the WiFi get controls put on the game consoles so they shut down at a certain point climbing out the window is harder call the police every time they abscond yes its a ball ache for everyone involved but eventually someone will have to do something rather than run you in circles and mumble at you

Your right they needed separating but I honestly think the time might have passed for that to be truly effective

Would your ds both agree to a managed move to 2 different schools?

Where’s their father in all this . Boys need strong role models .

If they didn't care they wouldn't be on to you about having their phones back. Sorry op but you have been far to relaxed and let them get away with murder. Its probably to late to make any relevant progress with their behaviour now unless they want to change.

I agree with you OP, they need to be in separate schools. I’m amazed their current school hasn’t separated them before this but it sounds as if this may not be possible in some classes.

i guess the question is do you move the main troublemaker or the bright boy and tell him it’s to give him the best opportunity possible.

Given the current situation is not working at all it seems you have nothing to lose by arranging a move.

What help is having an ADHD diagnosis going to be here. They are just badly behaved. School should never ever have put twins in the same class. Generally boys grow out of bad behaviour in Year 11 but these two are just encouraging each other. You could look into another school for one but without an audience/partner in crime would he go? As a bare minimum they need maths and english. Does the school have provision for a reduced timetable? I would say cut off all funds, hide anything valuable. Cancel phone and wifi. Make their lives as difficult as possible. If they resort to petty crime. They will get police on their case which might be the kick up the backside they need.

I think school could separate them if they really wanted to. If one is more able, then they should put him up a set. He might struggle but that’s preferable to being disruptive.
Can you separate them at home, one go to live with dad as I’m assuming you’re not together?
Wifi should be turned off when they misbehave. If phones are removed, don’t give in. If people tell you they are being disruptive in the neighbourhood, tell them to ring the police and report it. These boys need serious discipline

is it a tiny school?

At our school the years are divided into two mini colleges as it were (not private) and those two never cross over lessons. Most of twin sets I know were put on opposite sides so they never had classes together.

seems like doors horses and bolted comes to mind

id not just be thinking about now but also longer term and next year. Make sure they are separated at all costs.

Drastic actions are needed and now

As a mum of twins I do think separating them might be the key, I used to wish I could buy 2 houses to keep mine separate! Do you have technical schools around yours, here we have some that start at age 13 for special subjects like media and they seem to be much more relaxed than normal school. Maybe that could work instead of gcses

Yes I’d move one.

Is the school really small? How do they even know where each other is or find them so easily in lessons when they have been apart?

It sounds like a bit change is needed so moving school sounds like a good idea. I’d move the one who causes the most issues.

Army/navy/air force cadets? They need an external hobby with discipline. I'd also ask the police whether they have any prevention programmes.

Split them up, surely you'd rather they're lonely for a bit, than creepily unhealthily enmeshed for the rest of their lives who can't live independently.

You are unlikely to find even one of them a new school at this point - schools do not willingly accept Y11s because the GCSE modules and options never fit AND Y11s changing schools might as well have a neon sign over their head saying “I’m bad news”

You can ask the school to separate them In sets where possible - they will probably be difficult again and abscond. They will then end up in trouble and, if they repeatedly flaunt the school’s expectations and escalate their behaviours one, or both of them, will end up excluded - at which point the Local Authority will have to find them a school place - which is likely to be in a pupil referral unit OR another school being forced to take them, where, experience shows, they will repeat the same behaviours again. Either way, their education is going to be disrupted. It’s NEVER as simple as end at one school one week, start a new placement the following week. To be honest though… I think it’s too little too late, the only chance of success is with their current setting - which they clearly are not willing to make the effort to do.

Schools are very unlikely to accept one/both restarting in Y10 (often only agreed for illness, or other uncontrollable reason. With previous impeccable records) because once they reach 16, they can just stop coming - and sadly, evidence shows that young people who are exhibiting the sort of behaviour your sons are, are exactly the sort of young people that do that.

As a parent, most of this is on you though. Tough but true. This is a bloody late point in their childhood to start making changes - unless you are willing to be hard core. No phones (as in, get rid, they can’t earn them back). No consoles. No subscription services (if you want them, password them). No treats, snacks, money. Nothing. Grounding them properly (and yes, calling the police when they abscond) and generally, actually being in charge. You are the person that makes their life comfortable (the food they like, the clothes they like, the smellies they like etc.) you can and should exert a lot of control. As long as they are fed, have clothes and can wash, that’s enough. Anything extra is earned - by stopping fucking up their education, that of everyone else in their class and frankly, wasting their schools (and the police’s) time.

Also, you said they don’t socialise except with each other.

Then said that they hang around with older kids (riding their e-bikes, messing around on the estate etc.) AND that at least one of them socialises on his phone (poorly) with other kids including harassing girls.

Clearly they can, and do socialise, with others. Their behaviour in school that you are presenting as being too close is them choosing to egg each other on. Please, don’t try and make this out to be some sort of twin social syndrome or SEND. Your kids are badly behaved. By choice. And example.

Goodness knows how they remember each others timetables or look inside so many rooms!
Id start looking for a new school for one of them tomorrow

They sound neurodivergent. Any nd in your or your ex's family?