AIBU to think of course all the anti-trans posts on this website and others are leading to real life harm?

Yep, it's misogynistic as fuck.

OP, what percentage of attacks against transpeople are by men? And what percentage are by women?

Hopefully that means they'll understand why women are scared of being attacked by men in the toilets too.

I’d agree on this. If a trans identifying man is wearing outrageous clothing then they’re taking the piss out of women and that’s not on. It’s degrading cultural appropriation and I’m so glad the likes of Ru Paul’s Drag Race has been binned.

Transactivism made this a war against women. Before transactivists started attacking women, trans people were living amongst people just fine.

Before the aggressive activism, I did think #bekind but the activists have forced me to reevaluate things and my view has flipped completely. I am not against trans people but believe that they should be fighting for third spaces and not women’s spaces.

It’s not an academic debate when being trans or a woman is somebody’s life and people are fighting for changes socially, medically and legally that will affect women. Before the activists I felt that they were doing no harm and just living life but now I feel like I have to justify being a woman rather than it being accepted the way that activists want the world to believe that TWAW or whatever.

If you believe that transwomen are at risk then it’s from men and not women so if you want a bad guy then go after that group. It’s not women’s fault that men are the risk.

Overriding feeling here is hate for trans people. You'll get nowhere with this lot my friend, but thanks for trying.
How we went from Nadia winning Big Brother and everyone loving Hayley from Corrie to this bile and scaremongering is stunning.

And @helpfulucy its fascinating that you blame women standing up for our existing rights under the equality act for pushback, rather than the extreme demands of transacisvism for turning public support against the cause.

do you really think Isla Bryson in his skin tight pink leggings was the way to win hearts and
minds? Or the multiple cases of nurses being forced to change in front of clearly massive blokes? FAFO

If a male is sneaking into a girls changing room, where girls and women may be naked, do you really think that is perfectly OK? You’d be happy to let your 8 year old daughter get changed after swimming in front of a male?

Obviously. Third rule of misogyny innit. Male violence is all our fault.

The man with the camera is bullying and harassing the man sitting down. It’s absolutely unacceptable behaviour.

Men’s bad behaviour is not is the fault of women campaigning for women’s rights.

May I direct your attention to these as you are demonstrating #1 beautifully:

The Rules of Misogyny

1. Women are responsible for what men do.
2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4. Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9. Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10. The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.
11. Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.
12. Whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.
13. Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.
14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

Only thing I see here is hate for biological males trying to use women’s spaces / sports etc. Do you have an issue with that? Do you think women should accept them in their spaces and sports? Because that’s totally crazy.

Which does not mean that they should be able to use the ladies. TIMs need to call out other men and not women to change their attitudes and "be kind"

Some of this is inflammatory:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5469856-how-is-the-trans-issue-ever-going-to-be-resolved?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

eg the OP refers to gender affirming care as “child abuse” which is serious allegation towards parents and medics rather than a factually correct statement. The questions raised are reasonable though. Just no need use such loaded and dismissive wording.

Further down the thread there is another poster using a lot of highly inflammatory language such as “nothing but emotional manipulation” and “no established science”. It’s obviously fine to have an
opinion but announcing that a group of people with a different opinion are emotionally manipulated is not great.

OP has a point.

The trans movement has changed, think 26 years ago a trans character was introduced into coronation street, she became one of thee most loved characters, now I see men having breast implants, dressing as women, whilst still displaying masculine traits, people with gender dysphoria want to blend in, a lot of theses so called activists dont. Im an OG 51 year old lesbian and I feel the lgbt ( im not adding the other letters) has been hijacked. Female spaces must be protected our rights must be barbed wire ring fenced end of, the pronouns catastrophe is a joke, misgendering happens and mostly put of confusion and as a member of the lgbt world I feel its going backwards and the problem is with men cos playing as women and demanding entry into single sex space. Im not transphobic JK Rowling is not transphobic, shes fucking brave, shes risking her legacy and her reputation for other women, women who are given no choice and have their space invaded. And im sick of trans influencers label every women who doesn't want a man in their sports team as religious Trump supporting cis gendered right wing lunatics its bullshit and that cis label fucks me off surely I have the right to not be labelled cis, im a woman end of. Rant over

I'm as gender critical as they come, but I've never ever seen a GC post that suggests trans people shoul be demonised or that attacking them in public isokay.

Over and over and over again I see women saying that they respect a trans person's right to wear what they like and to identify as they ike, but they won't respect that person invading spaces that are for women.

One of the saddest things about the rhetoric around trans people these days for me is that in the old days, if I saw an obviously male person dressed in female clothes, wearing make up etc, I barely blinked. At most, I might wonder if they're off to a party or, if they'r eyoung, I might have thought, "I love that young people can express themselves however they like thse days. so different than from when I was young."

But now, I see this and I worry, "shit, I need to go to the loo. What if they are goign to use the same bathroom as me? Are those men just wearing those clothes to get access to me and other women" etc etc.

And I hate it. My life was much simpler when a man in a dress was just a man who felt comfortable doing things that meant he didn't necessarily conform to what all the other men were doing.

Single sex spaces are needed because of men's behaviour. Trans women are being restricted because men rape and attack women. Having their lives restricted by men's behaviour is probably the most female experience trans women will ever have. Funnily enough they don't appreciate that bit.

None of these problems have been created by women or mumsnet. They have all been caused by men.

Do you think sexual assaults have got 'WAY out of hand' or do you think we have about the right amount of them and it is the academic debate that is the real issue?

Oh op. Men verbally attack a man and you're blaming people on mn? There have always been awful men that's why we don't want them in women only spaces.

Men identifying as women should be allowed to wear dresses and make up without abuse I agree. That's it though, they are not women. Hope that helps.

This.

So is OPs eyes, women not wanting to share communal changing rooms, prisons and sports with male people is the reason a right wing male person beats up another male person.

Blaming women for male violence. Nice.

I really feel for trans people, and trans women in particular at the moment.
Why transwomen more than transmen? Why are transmen rarely the promoted person by activists? If there is someone to feel sorry for why not the transmen whose voices aren’t amplified because the patriarchy focuses on the transwomen?

Julie Hesmondhalgh, who played Hayley, is female. ‘Hayley Cropper’ is not representative of men who wish to see themselves and be seen by others as women, because ‘Hayley’ is an adult human female. And I’ve no doubt she’d be vilified for playing that part now.

What the man in the video did was abhorrent, but it’s not a woman’s fault. Not in real life, not on Mumsnet. It’s his fault alone.

'Blaming women for male violence. Nice'

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing. The tras have done a good job on those easily swayed.

Transmen grew up without male entitelement so tend not to expect everyone else to accomodate them. Trans women on the other hand........

Yes, the threads on here perpetuate real harm. 100%. It requires a massive suspension of disbelief to argue otherwise. Anyone saying that anonymous posts on an internet forum are meaningless just need to look at the division in our society, and assaults against immigrants, women, trans people - take your pick- to see that online rhetoric results in real life harm.

We’re not anti trans people

We’re anti trans people being in the wrong space

an important difference

Also, i think it's really important to differentiate between the issue GC people have with trans-identifying individuals vs the issue right wing Tommy Robinson types have.

The former don't have an issue with trans people in themselves. They have concerns over the safety and confidence of girls and women and their spaces. They want to protect girls and women whether that's by keeping men out of their bathrooms or by ensuring that women compete against women and not (much stronger/fitter) men in sports, and everything in between.

Right wing Tommy Robinson types have issues with people they perceive as being less "manly". They adhere to a stereotpical view of what a man "should be" and "traditional" masculine stereotypes (I use inverted commas because a lot of this is total bollocks and ridicujlous both in what they think is masculaine and, hilariously, in whether any of them actually live up to it. Don't even get me started on these men supposedly as "providers", that lovely supposedly important "traditional" thing men do).