Aibu feeling uneasy about men taking little girls to the toilet in the womens toilet?

This is ridiculous children of that age do not care . It’s the adults who care not preschool kids . They don’t give a shit about where they go for a pee as long as an adult is with them . What are you shielding them from exactly ? What the hell do you think goes on in men’s toilets

Extra needs like this should use the disabled toilet .

Extra needs like this should use the disabled toilet .

What age exactly? My daughter did when she was younger and still does. She still needs to be taken and assisted in the toilet at 16 due to her disability. Disabled toilets aren't always available. It's not the case now she's older but when she was younger her dad frequently had to take her to the toilet. Why do people keep asking what we think goes on in men's toilets as if the only reason we don't feel a female child should have to use the men's toilets is because they'd be at some risk. You're the one getting all bent out of shape about some poor dad just trying to take his kids to the toilet. What do you think is going to happen in that scenario?

Needing me didn't mean she needed an accessible toilet 🤣

It isn’t about what is going to happen in either loos - it is about dignity.

I once had a super heavy period and I was basically haemorrhaging. I had to deal with myself and then get to the sink to clean up.

on another occasion I was at pub and a whole glass of red wine got knocked down my front I literally had to strip down to my underwear in the loos and try to wash out my clothes and hold them under the dryer.

there have been other occasions where I’ve had to change in the loos between work and a night out.

sorry I don’t really want a man walking in during those times, no matter how noble anyone think he’s being.

My six year old boy has occasionally gone to the men’s on his own in an open door toilet where I could see what was going on . He’s well able to go to the toilet on his own , most 6 year olds are because they go to the toilet on their own in school . I’d be more wary of a 6 year old boy going to the toilet on their own in the men’s than a 6 year old girl going in the men’s with with a man literally there supervising them. Or a 6 year old girl going to the women’s on their own which is basically zero risk. if they have a trantrum about it they just need to get over themselves and learn to understand that an adult man can’t be in the women’s toilets . You don’t always get your way in life .

In a traditional single sex washroom (basins plus hand-dryers) there will be airflow above and below the partitions and doors from the toilet cubicle into the washroom,

Not always the case. None of the single sex lavatories in my new office building have gaps above or below. The doors on the cubicles are floor to ceiling opening out to the single sex hand washing area. Many places are like this.

As a teenage girl I was so self conscious about changing sanitary products . I would have freaked if I heard a man in there . I couldn’t give a toss now. I think some people just forget how vulnerable and self conscious teenage girls can be.

Yes I agree!! You will find many new places are like this. The gaps are disappearing in toilet design which is what my campaign is about! It’s why I keep going on about toilets! I really wish I didn’t have to.

When it’s been ambiguous who is allowed in the washroom, the first thing that happens design-wise is that the doors and partitions become floor to ceiling in privacy.

Brace yourself for full on toilet safety nerdiness:

The Building Safety Regulator which were part of the Health and Safety Executive have written to me and said that the only designs that are allowed to have door gaps are single sex designs in a single sex environment.

In Approved Document T (2024) is doesn’t show them on the cross sectional diagrams for types C and D as they said they wanted the document to be as succinct as possible. However I have analysed the consultation and responses leading up to ADT, and there was no mention of why door gaps were advantageous (despite the health and safety advantages being listed in BS6465). In particular for the millions of people with heart conditions, risk of stroke, endometriosis, neurological conditions such as epilepsy, and diabetes….
The government did commission a private company to look at designs for people with long term health conditions. This commission didn’t look at any of the conditions I listed above either, except stroke in terms of a handrail. Instead they recommended enclosing certain designs for people with long term health conditions. I investigated the evidence they had for this. The literature source was wrong on multiple levels - it was an opinion article by two Americans (this is relevant as their designs are different to British designs) who weren’t looking at long term health conditions. The relevant sentence was: ‘A better solution, supported by many transactivists, and increasingly found in trendy nightclubs and
restaurants, is to eliminate gender-segregated facilities entirely and treat the public restroom as one single open space with fully enclosed stalls’.
This is the typical design known as ‘inclusive’ toilet design. It’s unregulated, and least bad for healthy men.

As far as I am aware, no one looked at the affect of enclosing toilet design on women either. I can find no evidence of this happening.

Again, I can give you links to the above evidence if you really wanted. I am aware this is very niche, but by focusing on the vital importance of door gaps and investigating why the designs have changed, it has unearthed a lot of other stuff too!

What I am campaigning for is for the advantages of door gaps to be listed in ADT, ADM (in the section about separate sex toilet-washrooms for disabilities and conditions such as epilepsy and diabetes).

You've shown two huge misunderstandings of SEN children in two successive comments. Neurodivergent children don't necessarily need accessible toilets, and they can't just "get over themselves."

It isn’t about what is going to happen in either loos - it is about dignity.

I once had a super heavy period and I was basically haemorrhaging. I had to deal with myself and then get to the sink to clean up.

on another occasion I was at pub and a whole glass of red wine got knocked down my front I literally had to strip down to my underwear in the loos and try to wash out my clothes and hold them under the dryer.

there have been other occasions where I’ve had to change in the loos between work and a night out.

sorry I don’t really want a man walking in during those times, no matter how noble anyone think he’s being.

Yeah imagine how vulnerable and self-conscious a girl would feel being made to use the men's toilets.

I can understand that for both of those instances, and I think most men would be equally uncomfortable to walk in on you in those circumstances. I don't think men taking their daughters to the toilet are striving to be noble. They just want their kid to get to a toilet that they're comfortable with before they piss themselves. But with regards to you standing for the best part undressed drying your clothes , that isn't the primary purpose of a public toilet and possibly you made other women using the toilets uncomfortable.

You literally just said it was nothing to do with Sen . Regardless of any Sen an adult man should not be in the female toilets and it’s up for you to sort that out yourself . It’s not an excuse . Sorry but it’s not.

Yes I agree!! You will find many new places are like this. The gaps are disappearing in toilet design which is what my campaign is about! It’s why I keep going on about toilets! I really wish I didn’t have to.

When it’s been ambiguous who is allowed in the washroom, the first thing that happens design-wise is that the doors and partitions become floor to ceiling in privacy.

Brace yourself for full on toilet safety nerdiness:

The Building Safety Regulator which were part of the Health and Safety Executive have written to me and said that the only designs that are allowed to have door gaps are single sex designs in a single sex environment.

In Approved Document T (2024) is doesn’t show them on the cross sectional diagrams for types C and D as they said they wanted the document to be as succinct as possible. However I have analysed the consultation and responses leading up to ADT, and there was no mention of why door gaps were advantageous (despite the health and safety advantages being listed in BS6465). In particular for the millions of people with heart conditions, risk of stroke, endometriosis, neurological conditions such as epilepsy, and diabetes….
The government did commission a private company to look at designs for people with long term health conditions. This commission didn’t look at any of the conditions I listed above either, except stroke in terms of a handrail. Instead they recommended enclosing certain designs for people with long term health conditions. I investigated the evidence they had for this. The literature source was wrong on multiple levels - it was an opinion article by two Americans (this is relevant as their designs are different to British designs) who weren’t looking at long term health conditions. The relevant sentence was: ‘A better solution, supported by many transactivists, and increasingly found in trendy nightclubs and
restaurants, is to eliminate gender-segregated facilities entirely and treat the public restroom as one single open space with fully enclosed stalls’.
This is the typical design known as ‘inclusive’ toilet design. It’s unregulated, and least bad for healthy men.

As far as I am aware, no one looked at the affect of enclosing toilet design on women either. I can find no evidence of this happening.

Again, I can give you links to the above evidence if you really wanted. I am aware this is very niche, but by focusing on the vital importance of door gaps and investigating why the designs have changed, it has unearthed a lot of other stuff too!

What I am campaigning for is for the advantages of door gaps to be listed in ADT, ADM (in the section about separate sex toilet-washrooms for disabilities and conditions such as epilepsy and diabetes).

My completely unscientific observation is that women really dislike the set up with gaps. I know in my previous office, which had the gap formation, the toilets got lots of complaints about the the lack of privacy. They were awful.

As far as I am aware, no one looked at the affect of enclosing toilet design on women either. I can find no evidence of this happening.

If you'd asked the women on level 5 of my old office block you'd have got 100% approval for getting rid of doors with gaps.

I found out my husband was taking our daughter in the men’s toilets and was horrified. They are so dirty and not a place for a little girl. The dad might have thought ‘I don’t want her standing in wee in the men’s, we’re not disabled, I’m just going to run into the women’s with her’ to be honest I might be startled but I’d understand. When I was a child, I went into the women’s on my own and my dad took my brother into the men’s. I was happy doing that but I wouldn’t want my child going anywhere unsupervised now.

Why are men’s toilets deemed disgusting but unisex loos are somehow not? I assume you would be happy with your husband taking your child into a unisex loo?

also editing to add- how do you know men’s loos are disgusting? I’ve never been in one to know.

Yes in reduces the ability to hear and see someone. The maximum floor to door gap can be 15cm. This was indeed enough to see a young woman’s blue hand on the floor on her cubicle. It can also help seeing if someone else is in the toilet-washroom and how many people are in the cubicle. It can help to hear someone’s cries for help if they are trapped, as can space above a door and partitions to help get someone out. Another good feature for safety is to have the toilet door rest in the open position.

When I talked about the affect on changing designs on women, I wasn’t talking about their opinion but the outcomes of what happened to them as occupants. That is what I have evidence for in my research over the last few years.

Women are scientifically shown to be more aware of their surroundings than men. I think women seem more likely to understand the safeguarding concerns when they are pointed out. Despite what you say, if I’d shown my real life research to the women on level 5 of your old office block, I would bet I would have 100% approval for keeping doors with gaps.