To ask for advice re private school dispute

So few burseries and scholarships now after VAT. Fees are raising each year. It would be risky.

@BlumeUndTisch, gave it up. I just pointed out the wrong information shared here which was misleading.

Why give wrong information that doesn't apply to OPs circumstances and then turn it around to say I need to focus on her circumstances?

in order for a child of divorced parents to attend - BOTH parents have to agree and sign the paperwork. This is about safeguarding. It is also because even if one parent is paying, they are establishing the legal right to sue the second parent for unpaid fees.

A google search (image posted, but the websites of the solicitors mentioned can be read for detail @Cicchetti ) confirms my personal understanding that a court will in no way entertain this, so I’d tell exH to apply to court if he is happy to lose money on the issue.

Re DC, at 10/11, you need to be able to have open and honest conversations about money by now: and I’d follow the advice above to explain that the local school is amazing (and take her on those open days, ideally along side school friends), that you cannot find the money for fees, that all of their primary school friends will likely go to the outstanding local school with her, that it will mean that there will still be money for holidays, school trips and hobbies because you will be able to afford those. Try not to panic OP, but be clear with DC that you are not engaging with Ex over this.

Doesn’t matter what your ex is doing.

Your party line - I don’t oppose you going to a private school. But we can’t afford it.

If he turns round and says he will pay for everything then that’s fine by you as long as all the fees are made in advance. You’re not going to be damaged by going to a state school. You would be damaged by starting one and then having to leave part way through.

If OP doesn't have the money? Private education is very expensive. Often the fees, trips and uniform costs are more than most parents' salary.

We have had two in state grammars. It has been fine.
One went private because of the school's music education was brilliant not because the academic was better. It wasn't really.

OP I’ve been in a similar situation, but my child was started at a private school against my wishes (I was in an impossible situation before I left him). Ultimately I was left to pay the fees that I couldn’t afford because he could not either and refused to contribute at all. This meant she had to leave after a year and I feel guilty to this day, albeit it wasn’t my fault.

He lied in court and told them he would pay, which of course he didn’t and I had to manage the fallout.

My advice with someone like this is have a very clear conversation with your DD, send him a very clear email stating that you cannot and will not pay for the private school and include several options for alternative schools for him to consider. If you don’t get a positive response (which you probably won’t) you can then apply for a Specific Issues Order via the family court to have a decision made - they can’t make you pay. Don’t leave this until the last minute as it will likely take quite some time. Set out that you cannot afford it and the impact that it will have on your child if she starts and has to move. Don’t discuss it in person, only via email, be clear and don’t attend open days. If you can afford it, speak to a solicitor or try CAB if not.

Sorry if that’s a repeat of any previous advice, I haven’t had chance to read all! Good luck, I feel for you and know exactly what you’re dealing with - I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this.

I think you shouldn't go to the open days, but should have clear discussions with your dc that you can't afford private school fees, and don't feel it's the best environment for her anyway.

I don't believe your ex will be able to enroll her without your consent.

Another thing to say to ex and DD is “Daddy needs to create a specific trust fund for you to go to private school if that’s what you both want. He needs to have all the money up front so you wouldn’t need to leave half way through if Daddy couldn’t afford it any more”.

Repeat on grey rock.

This is where the situation is best explained.
https://anshamwhite.co.uk/how-family-courts-handle-disputes-over-private-school-fees/

OP would likely have to show her finances to the judge. If the judge agrees that she can't afford it, then it's not an issue.

If the judge considered that it is in the best interests of the child to attend private school and OP can afford 10% and her father 90%, then yes, they could make this a court order.

He can't.

What mumsnetters don't seem to understand is that nowadays, all information can be found online. It's even better now because AI can behave as a private tutor to help break down complex concepts. It's nothing like the days before high speed internet existed.

So there is no reason for any school kid not to be achieving top grades in exams, regardless of what school they are at.

I agree about getting a specific order to agree the secondary school applications in order of preference - grammar, the catchment comp, the other comp, the guaranteed place comp and that private school isn’t an option due to finances.

Him refusing to consent to the state schools could be used to control you and mean you lose out on a place for her.

He could also sneak in the state application before you and select awful schools you wouldn’t agree to so as to force the private as the only option.

PP are missing the point; as he is a narcissist he does not care which school his DD goes to. It is just the latest tactic to get control and emotional reactions from his ex and DD.

Do not engage, do not visit the schools. Explain to DD that she will be going to an excellent state school, end of.

You need to reduce all communication with your ex to an absolute minimum or only through solicitors.
If you give in he'll keep the threat of withdrawing funding over you until she's an adult.

A judge can't order a parent to pay for a private school which the parent hasn't signed up for and the child hasn't set a foot on.

I don't think you should go to the open days. Your dd will feel it is a real option if you do.

Does your dd not want to go to the school her existing friends are going to? As in state school. That is a pretty powerful draw that your ex will have to overcome. We moved my 11 year old to private school which was a wonderful decision for him - but he didn't see that. At the time we were making the decision he would have far preferred going to the mediocre middle school his friends were all going to. I would talk to your dd saying you really can't afford it and the state school is lovely and her friends will be going there too.

A judge can't order a parent to pay for a private school which the parent hasn't signed up for and the child hasn't set a foot on
A judge can order whatever think is in the best interest of the child end of. Stop making completely unfunded statements.

In this instance, OP has said that he was going to take the child to the open day.

We don't have enough information here to say one way or the other.

You seem more determined to be right that to provide legal and helpful information to OP.

No parent can be forced tby British law to spend money on private fees if the parent never signed paperwork for private education and the child has never attended private education.

@BlumeUndTisch, I'm done responding to you it's obvious you are making statements having no experience or understanding of the law.

No…I was giving information about the wider picture, as part of the discussion on the thread. If you don’t find it helpful feel free to stop reading my posts or engaging with me.

sorry very long post here about both private and state schools from personal experience:

What school year is your child in now? Private schools usually have lower R to year 5, middle school 6-8 and upper school year 9 onwards.
So my children went to private school during early primary years from reception to year 5 it is very expensive and increases year on year as well as going up the school. So reception is less cost than year 10 for example then factor in the annual % rise. The school our two went to was not particularly academic compared to other local private schools but it was still very academic. Both my children are dyslexic and while in lower school they received additional interventions and small class sizes which helped enormously but this changes after going into middle school in year 6 they expect the children to be totally independent and the workload increases dramatically.

It really was just the very highly academic few (those way above average ability) that did well after year 6. To excel in the private schools in our area you need to be great and are either very academic, very musical or very sporty.

From the parents of children in middle and high school I have spoken to since those that have done great in private schools are those children that are either academic, sporty or musical and that put in a lot of extra hard work. Any child less than average ability seems to have struggled and has lost confidence in their own academic abilities.

I would look at this from your child’s point of view. What subjects does your child like? Would they excel in a highly academic environment or will the pressure be too much and negatively affect them through their teen years? Does your child have any additional needs? Are they on the SEN register?
What does the private school being looked at specialise in?

Not all children will excel or even do better in a private school than in a grammar school or a state school.
My eldest was struggling in the private school in year 5 and began feeling like he was not good enough despite how much effort he put in. He moved primary school to one of our local schools and his new teacher had a neurodiverse child so they were able to understand my son and support him through his SATs he did amazingly well.
When he transitioned to secondary school we just got lucky in that our closest state school has a huge SEN department. It was like we now had a very different child who received good school reports and his confidence in his own academic ability has increased. Everyone has been surprised how well he settled in. Funnily enough other children from his old private school living within the catchment have also joined this state school.

Really, I want to say that (perhaps contrary to popular belief) in our own experience a private school is not always better for every child.
Private school worked for us in the lower years because they did give children who needed it extra help, but once in middle school it was not the right environment for them and they fell behind.

Do you think your child would fit in academically? Do you think they would do better in a private school over a state school?
Will your ex expect a certain level of grades from your child if they do go to a private school and if so will the pressure be too much for them to succeed?
If you don’t think a private school would be a good fit for your child as an individual would you get a better response phrasing it logically like that? Rather than just focusing on only the cost?
if your child is currently year 5 or 6 can you both go to the open evenings at your local state schools usually in September and October? Will their friends be going to these local schools as well?
Also if you look at the private schools websites and calculate the cost of each year and total you will see the true cost over the whole of middle-upper school it is quite shocking when you look at it totalled up.

If you have any questions either about private schools or state secondary schools you’d like to ask please feel free to.

Good luck

With private schools the fees are only part of the expense. There are so many extra costs that are not optional.
Uniform, musical instruments, sports kit, trips, longer holidays so more child care, transport if there isn't a local bus or you can't drive and ex won't do the ferrying about.
I have a friend who sent her DC to a private school and honestly, the cost of all the above was extortionate. Even the school branded swimming costume was over £50. Mine went to local school then local 6th form college and did really well. Plus mine could go on the bus which was essential because I was working. Don't underestimate the importance of having a friendship group that is local and accessible by foot or bus.

Before any open days happen I would open the school's website with your DC and show him/her the annual fees. Explain that Dad is insisting he will only pay half so it's not going to be possible. I wouldn't necessarily share your exact salary with your child in case it's passed on to Dad but you could use a worked example e.g. with the average UK salary minus housing costs, bills, food etc and look at how much is left. At 10 I was well aware that my father was wealthy and my mother was not, but she was always our safe base and he was unpredictable. She didn't say negative things about him but she was honest about finances and how things stood.

Paying over the odds to live in the catchment of an outstanding state school is, ethically, much of a muchness with using that money to send DC to private school instead. Anyway, in this case, if ex pays fees for entire 7 years upfront - fine. Otherwise - no, he can fuck off. State school is absolutely fine.